Characters and Groups Kurozumis and Kozukis

[Lemonade]

We know Orochi and Kanjuro and whatever Kurozumis shown are the villains. Some started out as villains but others became villains as a result of persecution. As such, what are your thoughts on an important character being a good Kurozumi?

We saw a good Donquixote in Rosinante and Mjosgard.

So what if Tama is a Kurozumi? If Momo x Tama becomes real, then the two families can be united and the next Shogun will be both Kozuki and Kurozumi!

 

[Nessos]

It will be either Tama or Zoro who ends up being related to Kurozumi.

 

[Gambit]

Let them all vanish at once. I don't like to see an Uchiha-like situation here.. Too cliché.. Let there be darkness that will spiral forever..

 

[Captain Khan]

We know Orochi and Kanjuro and whatever Kurozumis shown are the villains. Some started out as villains but others became villains as a result of persecution. As such, what are your thoughts on an important character being a good Kurozumi?

We saw a good Donquixote in Rosinante and Mjosgard.

So what if Tama is a Kurozumi? If Momo x Tama becomes real, then the two families can be united and the next Shogun will be both Kozuki and Kurozumi!

Judging by Orochi's character ,he would have never been such a douche evil guy had it not been for the people of Wano . Same goes for Kanjuro .
You reap what you sow .
Having said that, if Tama or some else who didn't descend into darkness is a Kurozumi, then I would really like to see the conversation between Orochi,Kanjuro and them .

 

[Lemonade]

It will be either Tama or Zoro who ends up being related to Kurozumi.

Why Zoro?

 

[Nessos]

Why Zoro?

Rob Gucci created a great theory back in OJ. It was actually meant to counter the Common theory that Zoro is related to the Shogun before Wano started.

Its about Zoro being a descendant of a "Hippo"-clan backed up by multiple colorspreads.

After the reveal of Orochi I had a talk with Rob Gucci with Orochi having the face of a Hippo(Look at the toothes) his theory actually turned in a "Zoro being related to the Shogun"-theory.


I am glad I found the theory on the web. You should give it a try it is really well written

The True Origins of Zoro - One Piece

Originally, Roronoa Zoro was going to be a member of Buggy’s crew, his bodyguard to be exact. But Oda scrapped those intentions and made Zoro the 3 blade wielding pirate we all know and love today. But the question is… why? Why did Oda take this would be forgettable character and turn him into such

www.opfanpage.com

(On opfanpage you can find a few of the good old OJ OP theories)

 

[Captain Khan]

Rob Gucci created a great theory back in OJ. It was actually meant to counter the Common theory that Zoro is related to the Shogun before Wano started.

Its about Zoro being a descendant of a "Hippo"-clan backed up by multiple colorspreads.

After the reveal of Orochi I had a talk with Rob Gucci with Orochi having the face of a Hippo(Look at the toothes) his theory actually turned in a "Zoro being related to the Shogun"-theory.


I am glad I found the theory on the web. You should give it a try it is really well written

The True Origins of Zoro - One Piece

Originally, Roronoa Zoro was going to be a member of Buggy’s crew, his bodyguard to be exact. But Oda scrapped those intentions and made Zoro the 3 blade wielding pirate we all know and love today. But the question is… why? Why did Oda take this would be forgettable character and turn him into such

www.opfanpage.com

(On opfanpage you can find a few of the good old OJ OP theories)

It is a nice one but I don't think Oda will try for the Burakumin route . He shows the discrimination by introducing fantasy elements like the Fishman and Minks .
But there is one instance when Kiku scolds Momo for using a word that Zoro taught him . That might be lead to the Burakumin theory , if not it may light up something of Zoro or Koushiro's past .

 

[Nessos]

It is a nice one but I don't think Oda will try for the Burakumin route . He shows the discrimination by introducing fantasy elements like the Fishman and Minks .
But there is one instance when Kiku scolds Momo for using a word that Zoro taught him . That might be lead to the Burakumin theory , if not it may light up something of Zoro or Koushiro's past .

Well Zoro seems to be related to Kuri the biggest hint for it is the "Snatch".

Think about following possibility.
Zoros parents(or grandparents) could have been Kurozumis that fled from Wano together with Kozaburo. This would also imply that Kurozumi family ruled once over Wano and that Wano became an outlaw region after the betrayel of Orochis Grandpa.

it would totally fit with current plotline and Kozaburo would end up being another great man of Wano.

 

[Captain Khan]

Well Zoro seems to be related to Kuri the biggest hint for it is the "Snatch".

Think about following possibility.
Zoros parents(or grandparents) could have been Kurozumis that fled from Wano together with Kozaburo. This would also imply that Kurozumi family ruled once over Wano and that Wano became an outlaw region after the betrayel of Orochis Grandpa.

it would totally fit with current plotline and Kozaburo would end up being another great man of Wano.

I was talking about the same panel . Here it is clearly shown how taboo of a word it is , almost indicating that is something spoken by the lower strata .
And were talking about Kuri when you wrote Wano ? Because I was thinking the same . I am almost sure of it .
Think about how Orochi felt,not only did almost everyone of his clan died . To add salt to his wounds, his ancestral land was taken in by the Kozuki .
Or that it was always an outlaw region . And the old Kuri dialect speakers were frowned upon by the other regions .
A great twist would be Kuri being like Siberia or Australia wherein mostly prisoners were taken to( Sorry mates ) . That maybe why Kiku was like "NO LORD, that is criminal speak"
Theory of Zoro being of a lower status suites better than being a Kurozumi . It would be better if Tama was one . At this point only Koushiro knows of his ancestry .
The possibilities are endless here .

 

[Nessos]

Theory of Zoro being of a lower status suites better than being a Kurozumi . It would be better if Tama was one . At this point only Koushiro knows of his ancestry .
The possibilities are endless here .

My problem with Tama being a Kurozumi is that she is too young.

Orochi was already a Shogun before Tama was even born. Sure one can tell a Story about the Kurozumi that didn't want to Ally with Orochi and living Hidden in the Village that got destroyed by Drake. And Hitetsu took care of Tama after her parents die. But for me thats a bit too blown up.

On the other hand we have Kouzaburou who escaped from Wano ~50 years ago. Based on timeline it habe to be the same time Kurozumis were hunted down by the citizen of Wano.

 

[Captain Khan]

My problem with Tama being a Kurozumi is that she is too young.

Orochi was already a Shogun before Tama was even born. Sure one can tell a Story about the Kurozumi that didn't want to Ally with Orochi and living Hidden in the Village that got destroyed by Drake. And Hitetsu took care of Tama after her parents die. But for me thats a bit too blown up.

On the other hand we have Kouzaburou who escaped from Wano ~50 years ago. Based on timeline it habe to be the same time Kurozumis were hunted down by the citizen of Wano.

Hmmm . But there is another thing of note for Zoro. He is wielding the Sandai Kitetsu , I don't know why Hitetsu never mentioned how it went out of Wano when he said how Wado Ichimonji got out .
Also I am reasoning that he was trying to be humble when he was not using the Sandai as a base for Zoro's strength . He did say a line about magic swords are not meant for the weak (Mangastream translation) but he didn't want to touch the Nidai .

Or that Oda is keeping a lid on it and sparkled Oden's swords to keep the Kitetsus in the dark. And I don't think he will finish the tale here .
And Zoro can be related to the Kitetsu . Hitetsu living in Kuri is a good indication Kitetsu swordsmiths were based in Kuri .
Kuri is indeed a interesting place .

 

[Nessos]

Hmmm . But there is another thing of note for Zoro. He is wielding the Sandai Kitetsu , I don't know why Hitetsu never mentioned how it went out of Wano when he said how Wado Ichimonji got out .
Also I am reasoning that he was trying to be humble when he was not using the Sandai as a base for Zoro's strength . He did say a line about magic swords are not meant for the weak (Mangastream translation) but he didn't want to touch the Nidai .

Or that Oda is keeping a lid on it and sparkled Oden's swords to keep the Kitetsus in the dark. And I don't think he will finish the tale here .
And Zoro can be related to the Kitetsu . Hitetsu living in Kuri is a good indication Kitetsu swordsmiths were based in Kuri .
Kuri is indeed a interesting place .

My first theory I publish here in OJ was about Zoro being a descandent from another family clan, The Kazuki Family, Zoros Ancestors.

Later on it could also be backed up by Kurozumi Clan not being an original member of the Big 6 families of Wano.

The 6 families of Wano

1. Moon of Light (Kozuki)
2. Moon of Frost (Shimotsuki/November)
3. Black Coal (Kurozumi)
4. Moon of Rabbit (Uzuki/April)
5. Moon of Heaven (Amatsuki)
6. Moon of Wind (Fuugetsu)

By looking at the Familynames, its quite hard to determine the evil family


Could it be that the Kurozumi Clan wasn't part of the 6 great clans in the distant past?
I am still up for the "Moon of Fire"-Clan as Zoro ancestors.

But right now I prefer the Kurozumi Zoro idea. Simply because it fits perfectly with Kozaburo fleeing from Wano ~50 years ago.

 

[Captain Khan]

My first theory I publish here in OJ was about Zoro being a descandent from another family clan, The Kazuki Family, Zoros Ancestors.

Later on it could also be backed up by Kurozumi Clan not being an original member of the Big 6 families of Wano.


But right now I prefer the Kurozumi Zoro idea. Simply because it fits perfectly with Kozaburo fleeing from Wano ~50 years ago.

Seems solid and you are only changing the family ruling Kuri from Kazuki to Kurozumi keeping most of your theory intact .

For me it would be better for Kuri being like a prisoner dumping region with no one lording over it and only once in a generation a great swordsman could handle it . If the Old Dialect were also spoken by the Kurozumi, Kiku would have not used Momo's status to let him not use it or that scene would have been better placed after the flashback . There were two Shimotsukis ruling over two regions in Wano maybe one of
A central theme of One Piece is that of a gathering place for the outlaws and a exceptionally strong guy(with respect to that place) ruling over it . Like in Water 7,Franky consolidating the backalleys of Water 7 . Fisher Tiger doing the same in Fishman District and there are more instances of it .

It all ties to why Kouzouboru fled Wano 50 years ago despite being a Shimotsuki . He took the Wado Ichimonji with him but left Enma . Hitetsu did say only one man(Oden) could tame it . Did Kouzouboru present it to the Kozuki out of spite or did he make it to choose one worthy of ruling Kuri ? We didn't see when Oden got the sword iirc .

 

[Nessos]

It all ties to why Kouzouboru fled Wano 50 years ago despite being a Shimotsuki . He took the Wado Ichimonji with him but left Enma . Hitetsu did say only one man(Oden) could tame it . Did Kouzouboru present it to the Kozuki out of spite or did he make it to choose one worthy of ruling Kuri ? We didn't see when Oden got the sword iirc .

Timelin is annoying.
Oden dies 20 years ago with age of 39.
With the age of 9 Oden fought Yakuza alreading having his swords.

This was 50 years ago. So Kozaburo already gave Enma to Oden.
(Funfact Zoro was 9 years old when Wado Ochi Monji was given to him)

For me it would be better for Kuri being like a prisoner dumping region with no one lording over it and only once in a generation a great swordsman could handle it .

Udon is actually the prisoners Region or not? Also Wano doesn't only have 6 great families, but is also separated in 6 regions!

• Flower Kapital - Kozuki
• Ringo - Shimotsuki
• Kuri - Kurozumi/Kazuki
• Hakumai - Uzuki
• Kibi - Amazuki
• Udon - Fuugetsu

I am quite sure Ringo always belonged to Shimotsuki, because Shimotsuki Ryuma plot. But I think before the betrayel of Kurozumi another family ruled over Wano and I would put my bets on Uzuki (Uzuki means April while Shimotsuki means November, the only 2 families named after months. Ringo Winterland and Hakumai Spring)
Kuri refering to Kurozumi(or a lost Family) already explained. The last 2 just guessed (Not believing Toki from Udon, but againjust guessing).

Seems solid and you are only changing the family ruling Kuri from Kazuki to Kurozumi keeping most of your theory intact .

Well my theory also said that Kurozumi took over Kuri, but yeah its almost exactly what you say xD

 

[Captain Khan]

This was 50 years ago. So Kozaburo already gave Enma to Oden.
(Funfact Zoro was 9 years old when Wado Ochi Monji was given to him)

Hmm a nice parallel . This would be even bizarre if he presented Oden the Enma before he left . Maybe he liked his rebellious nature and made the sword for him . Since it is the same year anything is possible . He could be like "Fuck you ! I am gone and I left a sword which no one can control ! " In comes young Oden and rest is History .

Udon is actually the prisoners Region or not?

Udon is still not an outlaw region though . I guess that we get a view of it because Queen is the warden of the prison and lord of Udon . IIRC there are other prisons too .
But I was referring of a time before Oden made Kuri a prosperous region . Like an explanation of how it became an outlaw region,over years likely the prison became too hot to handle and it became a hot bed for criminals . Or that it could be like the Grey Terminal but on a bigger scale , can be anything in this context .

Also Wano doesn't only have 6 great families, but is also separated in 6 regions!

At one point Shimotsuki held two regions , and like you said Ringo must have been their familial hold . So Hakumai must have been under the Kurozumi . Orochi became a servant of Yasuie so that increases the chances too .

I would put my bets on Uzuki (Uzuki means April while Shimotsuki means November, the only 2 families named after months. Ringo Winterland and Hakumai Spring)

This could be it too . Only GODA knows

 

[Nessos]

But I was referring of a time before Oden made Kuri a prosperous region . Like an explanation of how it became an outlaw region,over years likely the prison became too hot to handle and it became a hot bed for criminals . Or that it could be like the Grey Terminal but on a bigger scale , can be anything in this context .

Thats sounds too much like Australia xD
Still think Kuri could have become Outlaw land after Orochis Grandpa poisoned the Clan leaders.

Also this panel

screams like "After a long time we can be proud again that we belong to Kuri". Hinting that Kuri was great region a long time ago.

At one point Shimotsuki held two regions , and like you said Ringo must have been their familial hold . So Hakumai must have been under the Kurozumi . Orochi became a servant of Yasuie so that increases the chances too .

Well if we say Kuri belong to Kurozumi. And Orochi lived in Kurozumi. He would have to Go to another region, because there ain't No Daimyo in Kuri

Only GODA knows

Thats true and I really hope Hitetsu gives us a Wano history lesson at the end of the Arc....

 

[Captain Khan]

Thats sounds too much like Australia xD

I said it earlier , didn't want it to use too often LOL .

A great twist would be Kuri being like Siberia or Australia wherein mostly prisoners were taken to

screams like "After a long time we can be proud again that we belong to Kuri". Hinting that Kuri was great region a long time ago.

Well if we say Kuri belong to Kurozumi. And Orochi lived in Kurozumi. He would have to Go to another region, because there ain't No Daimyo in Kuri

Mind BLOWNNN!!!
But Orochi knowing Hakumai as a child also increases the chances . Wait how old is he ?

 

[Nessos]

Wait how old is he ?

Orochi? around the same age as Oden.
Oden would be 59 now. Creepy Orochi looks a little younger than Oda, so I would bet Orochi is around 55 years now.

 

[Captain Khan]

Orochi? around the same age as Oden.
Oden would be 59 now. Creepy Orochi looks a little younger than Oda, so I would bet Orochi is around 55 years now.

If Kozaburo really helped the Kurozumi like you said ,but he left Orochi kun .
If both were in Kuri he should have found Orochi . But taking a nasty looking fellow like Orochi in a long,perilous journey was not a cup of tea for him I guess

 

[Ghidorah Guy]

So if Tama has the powers of Momotaro aka Peach Boy...and she's Orochi's daughter, making her royalty...does that then make her....

I'm not even totally joking, I'm seeing lowkey Super Mario allusions everywhere. The Super Mario franchise borrows heavily from a lot of Taoist/Chinese legends, and I'm certain One Piece is at its heart a Taoist-leaning discourse, so I wouldn't put it past Oda. Hell, Kaido and Orochi are arguably a corrupted fusion of Mario & Luigi with Bowser and King Toad, and their goons ride around on evil fucking Yoshi's.