Chapter Discussion One Piece 1002: Emperors vs The New Generation

[Nocvius]

Luffy is looking so pathetic right now, like honestly... Luffy vs Doffy, Cracker, Katakuri=future sight; Luffy vs Kaido, Udon, Big Mom=advanced armament haki, and he still has less attack power than Zoro.

Throughout Wano Oda has been portraying Zoro stronger than Luffy. Like come on man, how much do you like Zoro!? It's disgusting how much Oda is fanboying over Zoro and how ridiculously pathetic Luffy looks like right now. He wants to become PK but he can't defeat the Emperors and relies on Zoro's strength. Oh my gooood, dude stop. Luffy will never become the PK he will just steal the title from others. I feel like I've wasted all this time reading one piece.

So having "less damage output" than Zoro
=
Luffy is "worse" than Zoro
=
Luffy doesn't deserve the PK title

Are you serious?

I thought the PK title is more than just a simple, shallow, superficial, "I can deal the most damage, therefore I am the PK".

Luffy can fly. Zoro can't.
Zoro has to rely on Law to "boost him up" just to attack Kaido up close. And he STILL freaking missed it.
Luffy didn't miss ANY of his attacks, AND already inflicted FAR MORE DAMAGE to Kaido than Zoro did, in such a short time.
Luffy's punches may not be as lethal as Zoro's slash, but they are definitely more efficient in dealing damage against most opponents.

Luffy can tank lightning. Zoro can't. Look who's still dealing damage now after BM went Thor mode.
And Luffy freaking tanked Kaido's boro breath, an attack that could blast an entire mountain. Just with "guts".
Crazy feat for anyone's standards.

And here I'm talking as a Zoro fan. Because to me, Luffy doesn't look pathetic right now.
Zoro is the one that I'm concerned about.
In this specific fight, Zoro has to rely fully on Enma to deal meaningful damage, which drains a lot of his haki.
Zoro can probably only use a few more of that crazy slash, before he transitions into a support role...to slice flames.
That's assuming he doesn't get hit by BM's lightning.

But I'm cool with it.
Zoro only had a few weeks to practice with Enma. That gives him more room to grow.
If Zoro doesn't have Enma, then I'd rank him as the least useful among the 5 supernovas against Kaido-BM.
Because even Killer could actually damage Kaido, and already landed a nice hit.
And I know Zoro can't tank lightning and can't fly, so he will have issues just to land a single hit.
He will be useful solely because of his crazy damage output, but Luffy will still be the more effective fighter in this specific scenario.

Lastly, Luffy's worth as a character is not just valued on his mere damage output, or that he should be the best at every combat aspect.
Luffy, according to Mihawk, has the most dangerous ability, which is turning even his enemies into his allies. Zoro doesn't have that trait.
Luffy is respected, among his allies and rivals alike (remember Kid-Law reactions when he punched Carlos? They smiled. Kid, who said he didn't want to ally himself after Apoo's betrayal, now is fighting side by side with Luffy).
This is a PK-defining trait to me. Not whether he can one punch man Kaido.

Zoro, however, has a dream to become the world's greatest swordsman.
Giving him the strongest damage output, even compared to Luffy, or Kaido, Mihawk, Shanks, WB, Oden, Rayleigh, Roger, or anyone else really, is still perfectly acceptable to me. Don't forget he's also the main combatant of the future PK crew.
If Zoro can't at least do that much, he pretty much loses his worth, because everyone in that crew can fight.

Sigh
And this is why mods refrain us from discussing power levels...
I apologize if I sounded too offensive.

 

[Nicolo Makaveli]

So having "less damage output" than Zoro
=
Luffy is "worse" than Zoro
=
Luffy doesn't deserve the PK title

Are you serious?

I thought the PK title is more than just a simple, shallow, superficial, "I can deal the most damage, therefore I am the PK".

It's not about simple "damage output" it's about how Luffy becomes the PK. There's a difference between becoming the PK and stealing the title from the others. Luffy should earn the title with hard work and sheer will power, that's how winning is done.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1323328138995240963

Yonko are Luffy's Mihawk, if Luffy can't defeat Yonko then he will never become the PK, and these are not my words, it's Luffy who said it.

I WANNA CLARIFY ABOUT THIS, HERE: I'm not saying that Luffy should defeat all Emperors exclusively by himself, his rivals like Kid and Law can and should participate, but killer, Zoro? And on top of that Zoro (who has his own dream) is stronger than Luffy and can do way more damage than Luffy can, dispite the fact that Zoro STILL hasn't gone all out, never EVER struggled in new world, didn't fight any YCs (unlike Luffy), didn't train in Udon; Zoro is fack*ing OP, he came out of time-skip two times more stronger than Luffy.

I've never cared how Luffy defeats his opponents before Yonko because guys like Doflamingo or Crocodile were never part of Luffy's dream but just a stepping stone, while Emperors were and are Luffy's main goal since the beginning. One Piece was always about Luffy vs Yonko it was said by Oda himself

Luffy can become the PK after defeating the Emperors, that's the whole point. Why is becoming the PK is as such a hard task to achieve? Because there are four strong pairets that you should defeat in order to achieve it and no one can do that, otherwise there would already be another PK.

Luffy's attacks are nothing against Kaido, Kaido eats them for lunch even though that Luffy uses advanced CoA, but one attack, one fac*ing attack from Zoro was worthy to dodge. Kaido never dodged any attack from anyone but Zoro, Zoro is way better in this fight for PK throne than the guy who has been screaming about it all this time. Of course Luffy is pathetic after all of this, in a fight for his dream, in a fight that decides his future and worth Zoro outshines Luffy by fuc*ing miles.

Luffy can fly. Zoro can't.
Zoro has to rely on Law to "boost him up" just to attack Kaido up close.

Zoro needs to rely on Law when it comes to covering Luffy's pathetic ass. Zoro has few seconds to cut Kaido's fire before it reaches to Luffy, so it's not fair to say that Zoro needs to rely on Law. Also Oden couldn't fly to but but it didn't stop him from defeating Kaido.

And he STILL freaking missed it.

Zoro missed because Kaido dodged, Kaido didn't dodge Luffy's attacks because Luffy can't really damage him like Zoro can. If Kaido wanted to dodge Luffy's or anyone else's attacks then they wouldn't be able to touch him because Kaido is freaking fast even for Luffy's FS.

Luffy didn't miss ANY of his attacks, AND already inflicted FAR MORE DAMAGE to Kaido than Zoro did, in such a short time.
Luffy's punches may not be as lethal as Zoro's slash, but they are definitely more efficient in dealing damage against most opponents.

Again, the only reason Luffy was able to hit Kaido because Kaido doesn't take Luffy seriously and doesn't dodge his attacks, if he did dodge Luffy's attacks the Luffy would have a hard time hitting him.

Luffy can tank lightning. Zoro can't. Look who's still dealing damage now after BM went Thor mode.

I mean rubber DF duh.

And Luffy freaking tanked Kaido's boro breath, an attack that could blast an entire mountain. Just with "guts".
Crazy feat for anyone's standards.

Luffy can tank Kaido's fier but Zoro can cut it, which is more efficient since it doesn't take stamina. Luffy can tank that attack few times but not more while Zoro can cut it way longer, this is why Oda uses Zoro as Luffy's guardian from fier. And yes, tanking a boro breath is a feat but not as impressive as scaring two Yonko, come on; and who said that Zoro can't tank boro breath?

And here I'm talking as a Zoro fan. Because to me, Luffy doesn't look pathetic right now.

Luffy looks pathetic because dispite all the preparations and power ups Zoro is still better than Luffy in Luffy deciding battle.

Zoro is the one that I'm concerned about.
In this specific fight, Zoro has to rely fully on Enma to deal meaningful damage, which drains a lot of his haki.
Zoro can probably only use a few more of that crazy slash, before he transitions into a support role...to slice flames.
That's assuming he doesn't get hit by BM's lightning.

Time will tell whether Enma has enough drawbacks to be a counter weight, but considering Zoro's previous power ups and how much Oda loves him I doubt it.

Lastly, Luffy's worth as a character is not just valued on his mere damage output, or that he should be the best at every combat aspect.
Luffy, according to Mihawk, has the most dangerous ability, which is turning even his enemies into his allies. Zoro doesn't have that trait.
Luffy is respected, among his allies and rivals alike (remember Kid-Law reactions when he punched Carlos? They smiled. Kid, who said he didn't want to ally himself after Apoo's betrayal, now is fighting side by side with Luffy).
This is a PK-defining trait to me. Not whether he can one punch man Kaido.

Oh the power of friendship yet again... for crying outloud. If power of friendship is the way he's going to become the PK then it's better poison Yonko than to fight against them.

Zoro, however, has a dream to become the world's greatest swordsman.
Giving him the strongest damage output, even compared to Luffy, or Kaido, Mihawk, Shanks, WB, Oden, Rayleigh, Roger, or anyone else really, is still perfectly acceptable to me. Don't forget he's also the main combatant of the future PK crew.
If Zoro can't at least do that much, he pretty much loses his worth, because everyone in that crew can fight.

If Zoro is stronger than Luffy than it takes away all meaning from Luffy's dream. One Piece is a shonen manga after all, you need to defeat Yonko in order to become the PK, if Luffy can't do that he just stole the title, he never became the PK he just stole it from other SUPERNOVAS because they could have done the same.

Sigh
And this is why mods refrain us from discussing power levels...
I apologize if I sounded too offensive.

Oh no offense my friend, we're just discussing one piece, we have the rights to express what we think.

 

[Emperor Cross]

Is Zoro the type of person to follow a man weaker than him ?

 

[Nicolo Makaveli]

Is Zoro the type of person to follow a man weaker than him ?

If he respects him yes, and Zoro does respect Luffy. Also it's not all the time that Zoro is stronger than Luffy, it's just Oda for some fuc*ed up reason decided to humiliate Luffy in fight that is so crucial for his dream.

 

[Shottie]

Luffy is already as serious as he will get, so don't expect Luffy to become stronger just by changing his attitude, especially when his going all out against Kaido while Zoro still hasn't used his strongest move ASURA yet.

I mean, Luffy is just a big ole goofball. But he is the hero so we gotta feel his wins and be excited for him. So I don't think Luffy's doing his top tier fighting level yet.

But you guys get so hung up on who should be the strongest you ignore the actual story. Which is why Oda loves trolling everyone. Every arc it's the same discussions, "so-n-so isn't as strong as so-n-so." "Why does Oda make so-n-so such a joke? He was better before!" "No way so-n-so was actually strong enough to win!"
It's been 1000 chapters now it should be obvious by now that being strongest isn't part of the plot.

 

[Nicolo Makaveli]

But you guys get so hung up on who should be the strongest you ignore the actual story. Which is why Oda loves trolling everyone. Every arc it's the same discussions, "so-n-so isn't as strong as so-n-so." "Why does Oda make so-n-so such a joke? He was better before!" "No way so-n-so was actually strong enough to win!"
It's been 1000 chapters now it should be obvious by now that being strongest isn't part of the plot.

I don't wanna Luffy to be the strongest, I don't care who is the strongest, you guys just keep ignoring the core problem here for some reason. I never talked about power scaling before this arc, it's much better for me to make theorys and analyze the story, that's the reason why I'm here in this forum instead of other forums where they only talk about power scaling non stop. I'm just analyzing the story here just like you said, it's just happens to be that this time it involves power levels "directly or indirectly" and us much as I hate to admit it, power levels are also part of the story telling no matter how much we try to dismiss it. So instead of showering it over your head like nothing happened, like it's not important: maybe you'd try explain to me what I don't get, maybe you would try to correct me about what I'm horribly wrong before making conclusions.

So please, tell me: why should we call Luffy the PK, for what reason? What will Luffy do to earn that title, what Luffy has that others don't?

Just don't tell me about POWER OF FRIENDSHIP, if you're going to bring up power of friendship then let's stop here.

 

[Shottie]

So please, tell me: why should we call Luffy the PK, for what reason? What will Luffy do to earn that title, what Luffy has that others don't?

We call Luffy the Pirate King because he will be the person with the most freedom in the whole One Piece world.
He can go to any port and because his crew doesn't plunder and kill indiscriminately, and be welcomed, though he will stir up trouble just so he doesn't become an actual hero.
People will give way to him because of just his name and the rumors/stories around him: "omg! THE Strawhat Luffy?! Didn't he break into impel down and escape?" "I heard he actual faced Big Mom and came away and his ship only took minor damage!" "He tweaked the nose of Kaido!" "Wasn't he Ace's brother?!" "Whitebeard acknowledged him!!!" "I heard he saved all of Fishman Island! And that's he's going to marry the princess!!" "No! I heard he was going to marry that princess from Alabasta!" "You both are wrong! He's marrying the princess from Dressrosa!" "Isn't his dad Dragon the revolutionary?" "He has a fleet of over 800 ships!!" "I can't belive his bounty is as high as a Yonko's and he's only been a pirate for 3 years!" "He has that devil child girl on his crew!" "He's escaped from the marine 18 times now!"
^ there aren't any characters in One Piece with the same level of accomplishments that Luffy has at this point, which are all reasons why we can call him Pirate King and proudly.

 

[Nicolo Makaveli]

We call Luffy the Pirate King because he will be the person with the most freedom in the whole One Piece world.

Yes, but how he will achieve that freedom? I very well remember that PK title=the freest man in the world, that's why I'm asking what will Luffy do to deserve what he will get. Because so far he doesn't actually do much, it's not Luffy who will defeat the Yonko it will be the worstgen's combined effort with Zoro potentially doing the most damage. Enma is crucial in defeating Kaido, it carries Oden's will in it, and Oda will use it as plot driven element. I can even see a scene where all worstgen members touch Enma and give all their haki to the blade with Zoro finishing off Kaido with one big attack by Enma through combined haki of the worstgen members.

He can go to any port and because his crew doesn't plunder and kill indiscriminately, and be welcomed, though he will stir up trouble just so he doesn't become an actual hero.
People will give way to him because of just his name and the rumors/stories around him: "omg! THE Strawhat Luffy?! Didn't he break into impel down and escape?" "I heard he actual faced Big Mom and came away and his ship only took minor damage!" "He tweaked the nose of Kaido!" "Wasn't he Ace's brother?!" "Whitebeard acknowledged him!!!" "I heard he saved all of Fishman Island! And that's he's going to marry the princess!!" "No! I heard he was going to marry that princess from Alabasta!" "You both are wrong! He's marrying the princess from Dressrosa!" "Isn't his dad Dragon the revolutionary?" "He has a fleet of over 800 ships!!" "I can't belive his bounty is as high as a Yonko's and he's only been a pirate for 3 years!" "He has that devil child girl on his crew!" "He's escaped from the marine 18 times now!"
^ there aren't any characters in One Piece with the same level of accomplishments that Luffy has at this point, which are all reasons why we can call him Pirate King and proudly.

This part is really strange to me, I'm pretty sure that there are rumors about other pairets too, like kid for example he challenged Shanks and Big Mom and got away with it. Also we don't really know what other pairets did, Oda doesn't show as what is written in newspapers, what's really going on in the world.

Rocks was once extremely popular too, he's the most accomplished pairet so far; but what happened to him? He got crashed by Roger and Garp's strength, everyone has a plan until they get punched into the teeth.

 

[Shottie]

This part is really strange to me, I'm pretty sure that there are rumors about other pairets too, like kid for example he challenged Shanks and Big Mom and got away with it. Also we don't really know what other pairets did, Oda doesn't show as what is written in newspapers, what's really going on in the world.

We do have an idea what a lot of the pirates have been up to: 1) Uroge went into Big Mom's territory and took down 1 commander but got no further, and that's the best anyone had done. Luffy actually booped Big Mom on her nose. No one else with hostile intent made it that far. 2) Kid lost his arm to Shanks thus he lost to him. Which doesn't bode well for his abilities. 3) Then Kid and his crew were taken captive by Kaido. 4) Apoo and Drake (even if he's a marine...) and Beige and Hawkins all became underlings instead of fighting Yonko. From that information alone we can tell they gave up on their ambitions for awhile and were content to just survive.
So yea, not as legendary as what Luffy has accomplished in the same amount of time. Probably only exception is Blackbeard, but he did all that with trickery and having 2 DF. (Yea I'm biased against Blackbeard )

Rocks was once extremely popular too, he's the most accomplished pairet so far; but what happened to him? He got crashed by Roger and Garp's strength, everyone has a plan until they get punched into the teeth.

Rocks wasn't "popular" he was feared.
And sure he got defeated by Roger and Garp (working together) but there was also the Celestial Dragons involved and their slaves. We don't know the details on that one yet. Victors tell their own version of events.

I very well remember that PK title=the freest man in the world, that's why I'm asking what will Luffy do to deserve what he will get. Because so far he doesn't actually do much, it's not Luffy who will defeat the Yonko it will be the worstgen's combined effort with Zoro potentially doing the most damage

and you missed the point of my post. The stories that will come out of this Wano arc will be that Luffy fought Kaido and Big Mom and won. That's what the rest of the world will hear. It doesn't matter WHO does what during the fight. Even if it is Zoro who does one of the finishing blows, credit won't go to him and he won't care because Mihawk and Greatest swordsman is his goal. (Though he may use that to hover of Sanji's head so they can continue their one upmanship). That's all that actually matters in this story, is how the One Piece World perceives Luffy and the Strawhats. That's what will make him King of the Pirates.

 

[Nicolo Makaveli]

and you missed the point of my post. The stories that will come out of this Wano arc will be that Luffy fought Kaido and Big Mom and won. That's what the rest of the world will hear. It doesn't matter WHO does what during the fight. Even if it is Zoro who does one of the finishing blows, credit won't go to him and he won't care because Mihawk and Greatest swordsman is his goal. (Though he may use that to hover of Sanji's head so they can continue their one upmanship). That's all that actually matters in this story, is how the One Piece World perceives Luffy and the Strawhats. That's what will make him King of the Pirates.

Aha. So that's why hammm... well that's kind of disappointing, I guess one piece was never my type of the storytelling that I like. You see, I usually like when characters earn what they get, like for example Blackbeard tricks people and goes as far as possible to achieve what he wants and Luffy on the other hand does things fairly unlike Blackbeard, he earns his victories, at least I thought so once. Now I think I was wrong all along, Luffy doesn't really need to earn his victories, he's just like Blackbeard and the only difference is that Blackbeard cheats by himself while Luffy cheats by accident, at least that's what Oda wants us to think.

But Oda's lover Zoro is the only one who will earn his victory against Mihawk.

 

[Best Generation]

Relax, power level discussion

I don't wanna Luffy to be the strongest, I don't care who is the strongest, you guys just keep ignoring the core problem here for some reason. I never talked about power scaling before this arc, it's much better for me to make theorys and analyze the story, that's the reason why I'm here in this forum instead of other forums where they only talk about power scaling non stop. I'm just analyzing the story here just like you said, it's just happens to be that this time it involves power levels "directly or indirectly" and us much as I hate to admit it, power levels are also part of the story telling no matter how much we try to dismiss it. So instead of showering it over your head like nothing happened, like it's not important: maybe you'd try explain to me what I don't get, maybe you would try to correct me about what I'm horribly wrong before making conclusions.

So please, tell me: why should we call Luffy the PK, for what reason? What will Luffy do to earn that title, what Luffy has that others don't?

Just don't tell me about POWER OF FRIENDSHIP, if you're going to bring up power of friendship then let's stop here.

Dunno, maybe Luffy deserves the title when he surpasses the strongest pirate Shanks and finds One Piece. He seems to be doing fine and has his own troubles like Zoro

 

[Shottie]

Aha. So that's why hammm... well that's kind of disappointing, I guess one piece was never my type of the storytelling that I like. You see, I usually like when characters earn what they get

And now you are a step closer to understanding the bounty system as well

You see, I usually like when characters earn what they get, like for example Blackbeard tricks people and goes as far as possible to achieve what he wants and Luffy on the other hand does things fairly unlike Blackbeard, he earns his victories, at least I thought so once. Now I think I was wrong all along, Luffy doesn't really need to earn his victories, he's just like Blackbeard and the only difference is that Blackbeard cheats by himself while Luffy cheats by accident, at least that's what Oda wants us to think.

And see here you like the "tough guy wins" approach to stories, whereas Oda prefers the lighthearted heros. Again Luffy is a goofy simpleton, always has been, and that won't go changing. It's the good guy wins without changing their morals or personality; triumphing over those who are too greedy or use their powers to intimidate.

If Oda wanted this story to be about fighting and strength Zoro would be the captain not some guy that literally takes a punch and bounces back up.

 

[Ghidorah Guy]

If it makes any difference, I'm fairly certain Oda's going to soon be aiming broadside cannons at the standard shonen genre tropes, along with w/ a heapload of deeply entrenched assumptions long held by the OP fandom in general. If there's one thing that probably demoralizes the fuck out of Oda -- and yes, he is paying attention to the undercurrents of the OP communities, best not fool yourself into thinking he doesn't give two shits -- it's all the toxic dismissiveness brandished by so called fans with myopic, narrow-minded conceptions of what is and isn't possible, when this arc ( and the manga as a whole ) is all about deep-diving into the realms of possibility offered by the human imagination.

In short, get ready for the "established" rules of OP and the shonen genre at large to get upended in many ways as the story progresses. We're likely gonna see a lot of wild shit few if any could've predicted directly following the current fighting. Give it....*looks at calendar*....I'd say 3-4 months. People are gonna be losing their shit.....especially the Zoro/Sanji/power levelz mongoloids. Oda bout to make em feel foolish for ther pigheaded stubbornness.

On that note, here's another wild prediction: in the not too far off future, we're going to bear witness to each and every member of the Strawhats managing to defeat Luffy in a one-on-one battle....well, more like Luffy in quotation marks, but a reasonable enough "replica." That's all I'll say on that front. Cuz really, what's the point to any of this is, so far as achieving the impossible and pulling off miraculous upsets is concerned, if it's only the main character who's allowed to do so? Not to say Luffy won't be top dawg regardless, but I def foresee big things forthcoming in each and every Strawhat's future that'll place them at least within range of Luffy, at least the point where the latter can never again go telling anyone such as Usopp that they can't win against him, be it in terms of an argument or a fight....there's always an exception to every rule so long as one can imagine it. Mind over matter, quantum mechanics, that is the whole point.

Don't take my word for it though. Just pay close attention in the upcoming year. And keep the myth of Sisyphus in mind, and what Oda might have to say with regards on the lessons inherent to said cautionary tale using the thematic lens of One Piece.

Not targeting anyone here with my ramblings here, mind you. Just saying. I'm highly anticipating the soul-shattering, "QANON WAS A SCAM??" realization and clusterfucks that'll erupt when Oda starts carpet bombing fandom with development and development that'll teach the worst of the lot never again to so vehemently dismiss any and all possibilities that don't mesh with their stubborn assumptions. Hopefully, it'll kill the whole POWER LEVELZ culture dead once Oda's done pulling a multi-nested April Fool's prank on all the dumbasses.

Here's another prediction: the good guys aren't just going to lose this battle; they're going to lose the next one as well. They're going to be losing a lot of battles the diehards would've never expected them to. Luffy for his part is going to get pounded into the dirt by Kaido many times over. And all these bullheaded assertions that Kid isn't on his level...well, get ready for those to be dispelled quite thoroughly soon enough as well. There's big things coming Kid ( and Killer's ) way....soon enough, they'll be undergoing a string of upgrades that'll be transforming them into quite the monsters, to the point Luffy and Zoro's more toxic zealots might hesitate before dismissing their abilities.

....fucking Christ, I just need to finish my big predictions/theory project already. IGNORE MEEEE *stumbles out of tavern all drunk and rambling on about Tesla Coils and Quantum Physics*

 

[God_Usopun]

Zoro's ostensible lack of endurance in his battle with Killer will make more sense one Oda really starts unloading the next wave of surprising plot developments. To me, there's a discernable reason Zoro's been having such an easy go of it post-timeskip, contrasted w/ Sanji's perceived "subpar" track record thus far: gut tells me Oda's gearing up to make it a point that Zoro's lack of challenges and notably squeeky clean, injury-free status thus far --- compared w/ Zoro constantly being saddled with chronic lingering wounds pre-timeskip -- have led to a downgrade in his overall endurance; in effect, having become too strong in the short run may've actually weakened him in certain areas.

By comparison, Sanji may've been getting the short end of the stick in terms of receiving ass kickings and missing out on full out proper battles, but I'm expecting Oda to reveal his ordeals have helped toughen him up, to the extent he may now actually be creeping up on Zoro in terms of power.

I'll say this much: I think these two are fated to come to blows very soon following the events on Onigashima for certain plot reasons. And it'll be for keeps. Only in defiance of expectations, playing into what will soon become a long-term subversion of standard shonen tropes and other entrenched assumptions on the fandom's part, Oda just might surprise us by portraying Sanji to be on par if not possessing an edge against Zoro. Not that it's going to end well for either of them. In fact, I'm fully expecting a full on eye-for-an-eye encounter once things really start getting out of hand between these two.

Sanji is not in his league anymore. Other people recognize Jinbe and Zoro but Sanji no. Rn it's LZJ he got kicked out of the M3

 

[Pepper]

Zoro has always been the one quick strong strike guy and Luffy the multi striking enduring guy. I don't get what's the issue.

 

[Nicolo Makaveli]

If Oda wanted this story to be about fighting and strength Zoro would be the captain not some guy that literally takes a punch and bounces back up.

Relax, power level discussion


Dunno, maybe Luffy deserves the title when he surpasses the strongest pirate Shanks and finds One Piece. He seems to be doing fine and has his own troubles like Zoro

If it makes any difference, I'm fairly certain Oda's going to soon be aiming broadside cannons at the standard shonen genre tropes, along with w/ a heapload of deeply entrenched assumptions long held by the OP fandom in general. If there's one thing that probably demoralizes the fuck out of Oda -- and yes, he is paying attention to the undercurrents of the OP communities, best not fool yourself into thinking he doesn't give two shits -- it's all the toxic dismissiveness brandished by so called fans with myopic, narrow-minded conceptions of what is and isn't possible, when this arc ( and the manga as a whole ) is all about deep-diving into the realms of possibility offered by the human imagination.

In short, get ready for the "established" rules of OP and the shonen genre at large to get upended in many ways as the story progresses. We're likely gonna see a lot of wild shit few if any could've predicted directly following the current fighting. Give it....*looks at calendar*....I'd say 3-4 months. People are gonna be losing their shit.....especially the Zoro/Sanji/power levelz mongoloids. Oda bout to make em feel foolish for ther pigheaded stubbornness.

On that note, here's another wild prediction: in the not too far off future, we're going to bear witness to each and every member of the Strawhats managing to defeat Luffy in a one-on-one battle....well, more like Luffy in quotation marks, but a reasonable enough "replica." That's all I'll say on that front. Cuz really, what's the point to any of this is, so far as achieving the impossible and pulling off miraculous upsets is concerned, if it's only the main character who's allowed to do so? Not to say Luffy won't be top dawg regardless, but I def foresee big things forthcoming in each and every Strawhat's future that'll place them at least within range of Luffy, at least the point where the latter can never again go telling anyone such as Usopp that they can't win against him, be it in terms of an argument or a fight....there's always an exception to every rule so long as one can imagine it. Mind over matter, quantum mechanics, that is the whole point.

Don't take my word for it though. Just pay close attention in the upcoming year. And keep the myth of Sisyphus in mind, and what Oda might have to say with regards on the lessons inherent to said cautionary tale using the thematic lens of One Piece.

Not targeting anyone here with my ramblings here, mind you. Just saying. I'm highly anticipating the soul-shattering, "QANON WAS A SCAM??" realization and clusterfucks that'll erupt when Oda starts carpet bombing fandom with development and development that'll teach the worst of the lot never again to so vehemently dismiss any and all possibilities that don't mesh with their stubborn assumptions. Hopefully, it'll kill the whole POWER LEVELZ culture dead once Oda's done pulling a multi-nested April Fool's prank on all the dumbasses.

Here's another prediction: the good guys aren't just going to lose this battle; they're going to lose the next one as well. They're going to be losing a lot of battles the diehards would've never expected them to. Luffy for his part is going to get pounded into the dirt by Kaido many times over. And all these bullheaded assertions that Kid isn't on his level...well, get ready for those to be dispelled quite thoroughly soon enough as well. There's big things coming Kid ( and Killer's ) way....soon enough, they'll be undergoing a string of upgrades that'll be transforming them into quite the monsters, to the point Luffy and Zoro's more toxic zealots might hesitate before dismissing their abilities.

....fucking Christ, I just need to finish my big predictions/theory project already. IGNORE MEEEE *stumbles out of tavern all drunk and rambling on about Tesla Coils and Quantum Physics*

Zoro has always been the one quick strong strike guy and Luffy the multi striking enduring guy. I don't get what's the issue.

I very well understand that one piece isn't as much into fighting as for example Baki, and that's what makes one piece so good (at least it did back in the day). But there are still core things that must be maintained, like for example: would it be fine if Zoro tag teamed with Luffy to defeat Mihawk? Sounds horribly wrong right!? I'm perfectly fine with Kid and Law fighting alongside Luffy, and even though at the beginning I was little bit desipointed in Zoro and Killer's addition to it, but eventually, I accepted it thinking that they will be removed from that fight sooner or later, liveing the main trio to continue the fight. But with the new chapter it is cristal clear that Enma with Zoro is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT or even CRUCIAL in defeating Kaido. Enma (and by extension Zoro) are vital in in this battle for the PK throne, and that's not my words, it is Kaido who said it...

And again, Enma which carries Oden's will (and by extension Zoro) are crucial in the battle for the PK throne; not Luffy, Kid or Law but Zoro, ZORO...

Zoro who doesn't wanna become the PK, Zoro who has never shown any interest in that title, Zoro who hasn't even remotely gone through as much preparations or training for this fight, is more important in battle for PK throne than Luffy, Kid and Law.

That's the same thing if Luffy who isn't even a swordsmen or has ever shown any interest in that title, tag teams with Zoro to defeat Mihawk and ends up being more important in the battle for that title than Zoro himself.
Is that really right to you? Am I really the only one who fills that this is bad, an absolute garbage...

Why nobody really gives a sh*t about it, why people just never mention it as if I'm seeing some kind of ghost that others can't!? What's wrong with you guys? Honestly, like come on ...

 

[Pepper]

I very well understand that one piece isn't as much into fighting as for example Baki, and that's what makes one piece so good (at least it did back in the day). But there are still core things that must be maintained, like for example: would it be fine if Zoro tag teamed with Luffy to defeat Mihawk? Sounds horribly wrong right!? I'm perfectly fine with Kid and Law fighting alongside Luffy, and even though at the beginning I was little bit desipointed in Zoro and Killer's addition to it, but eventually, I accepted it thinking that they will be removed from that fight sooner or later, liveing the main trio to continue the fight. But with the new chapter it is cristal clear that Enma with Zoro is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT or even CRUCIAL in defeating Kaido. Enma (and by extension Zoro) are vital in in this battle for the PK throne, and that's not my words, it is Kaido who said it...

And again, Enma which carries Oden's will (and by extension Zoro) are crucial in the battle for the PK throne; not Luffy, Kid or Law but Zoro, ZORO...

Zoro who doesn't wanna become the PK, Zoro who has never shown any interest in that title, Zoro who hasn't even remotely gone through as much preparations or training for this fight, is more important in battle for PK throne than Luffy, Kid and Law.

That's the same thing if Luffy who isn't even a swordsmen or has ever shown any interest in that title, tag teams with Zoro to defeat Mihawk and ends up being more important in the battle for that title than Zoro himself.
Is that really right to you? Am I really the only one who fills that this is bad, an absolute garbage...

Why nobody really gives a sh*t about it, why people just never mention it as if I'm seeing some kind of ghost that others can't!? What's wrong with you guys? Honestly, like come on ...

This isn't a really good comparison for multiple reasons. Mihawk wouldn't be fighting Zoro with Shanks help. Mihawk also isn't terrorizing a country and about to create tons of casualties. Zoro's dream is about his fighting skills, Luffy's is about reaching Laughtale and finding One Piece.
Also to mention that Zoro contributes to Luffy becoming Pirate King simply by being part of his crew

 

[Nicolo Makaveli]

This isn't a really good comparison for multiple reasons. Mihawk wouldn't be fighting Zoro with Shanks help. Mihawk also isn't terrorizing a country and about to create tons of casualties. Zoro's dream is about his fighting skills, Luffy's is about reaching Laughtale and finding One Piece.
Also to mention that Zoro contributes to Luffy becoming Pirate King simply by being part of his crew

And again you don't see the problem here... I said that I'm not against Kid and Law fighting alongside Luffy and I'm even fine with Zoro and killer, but at the very least let Luffy (who has been screaming about becoming the PK) take the lead, doing the most damage etc. Like seriously dude, 20 years of Luffy saying "I will be the PK" and Zoro is still stronger than him, Zoro can do way more damage than Luffy, and Zoro is more important for PL throne battle than Luffy.

Are you really fine with it? I can't believe this, for love of god.

Also to mention that Zoro contributes to Luffy becoming Pirate King simply by being part of his

Exactly, so why can't Zoro fight King, why is it such a bad thing to do? Is Zoro just TOO strong for MERE YC1?

 

[Best Generation]

And again you don't see the problem here... I said that I'm not against Kid and Law fighting alongside Luffy and I'm even fine with Zoro and killer, but at the very least let Luffy (who has been screaming about becoming the PK) take the lead, doing the most damage etc. Like seriously dude, 20 years of Luffy saying "I will be the PK" and Zoro is still stronger than him, Zoro can do way more damage than Luffy, and Zoro is more important for PL throne battle than Luffy.

Are you really fine with it? I can't believe this, for love of god.


Exactly, so why can't Zoro fight King, why is it such a bad thing to do? Is Zoro just TOO strong for MERE YC1?

I think that if you want you can read that Luffy is doing exactly what you want him to do. He seems to clearly take the lead and is doing the most damage. Just because Zoro attacks Kaido with an attack that he is succesfully able to dodge. Luffy is doing fine, no need to belittle him like he is being crushed. Zoro being able to use an attack that can take Kaido's head off is not only a testiment of his strength but also justified because of who'm he wants to surpass. I am sure that Mihawk is stronger than Kaido or Oden and both Luffy and Zoro will get way stronger within this fight. Luffy hasn't even started yet, he hasn't used his g4 form he invented to counter Kaido(and it fits against Big Mom's sice/fighting style as well), he hasn't used his "implosion flowing" haki that Shanks/Rayleigh mastered when Kaido eventually goes into his hybrid form and Big Mom shows more of her devil fruit. Zoro hasn't even mastered Enma yet and will turn it into a black blade within this fight, proving he has full control over it and that alone, could make him be close to Mihawks level. And for Luffy its even a bit more crazy, because he is not even showing what he has got and will additionally improve dramatically in other ways as well. So no need to get worked up over some growing pains along the way.

 

[Shottie]

Is that really right to you? Am I really the only one who fills that this is bad, an absolute garbage...

Why nobody really gives a sh*t about it, why people just never mention it as if I'm seeing some kind of ghost that others can't!? What's wrong

The reason why no one has a problem with Zoro having some licks in with Enma is because it's still freakn early in the fight and you're talking like it's 8th and final round. You're thinking that Zoro's part is going to lead to the finishing blow, but we don't even know how this fight will unfold. King and Queen are basically just being delayed by Marco, maybe they will break away and make their way up to the top. Maybe after the floating island reaches it's destination half the young gen guys will be flung away and have to make their way back. Maybe Big Mom starts using her sword more. All we know at this point is that they need to get hits in on Kaido and Big Mom, however they can do it.


Also your comparison to Luffy helping in a fight with Zoro doesn't work. That was always going to be a one on one fight.
We know Luffy needs his crew to take on 2 Yonko, we always knew this was going to be a group effort. (Roger couldn't have become pirate king without the help of his crew as well.)