Chapter Discussion One Piece 1003: The Night Reflected on a Go Board

[Ghidorah Guy]

For me, Enma is the best sword right now, it just because of its ability to unleash the user's Ryuo outside the user's original ability.

I would say the latest chapter shows there's more to Enma than simply channeling the wielder's own haki in bulk. The emphasis Kaido placed on the sword likely hints at Enma possessing a certain unique power all its own, independent of Zoro's respective own strength.

I look it at it as Enma being somewhat similar to a homie, particularly Napoleon: just way more flexible in terms of its potential wielders and its overt ability to actively leech away haki. Like Napoleon, it possesses its own power -- be it sourced from its own "will" ala Merry/Labautermann, Oden, or any others it's tied to, or likely a combination thereof just to promote the ever-prevailing theme of legacy -- but it can enhance itself by means of an infusion of power from its wielder; in Enma's case -- and imo that of pretty much any Cursed Sword, potentially speaking - this poses a two-way street: sword and wielder can empower each other, if not swap places, depending on who's asserting the greater influence over whom . Let's just say Enma, like Gear 4, may come with certain drawbacks attached to the overall package, so it may be too early to deem it the best....or at least, I'm pretty sure we'll be given much greater reason to doubt its merits pretty soon; writing's on the wall as to how dangerously volatile and detrimental it will prove to someone yet to master it

Anway, same kinda principle here, I think, so far as the sword/homie comparison goes...the real fun begins when Zoro learns how to not only commune w/ his swords but aligning their wills with his own, without necessarily forcing them to....similar to Nami's own partnership with Zeus, to a lesser extent. Add a dash of legitimate loyalty beyond mere self-interest, and that's when the magic really happens, as seen with Big Mom and her homies...though we've arguably yet to even see what happens when Zeus, Prometheus, and Napoleon are the ones to take the initiative through self-determined actin in support of Big Mom....but spoiler warning, we will....much later in the climactic finale of Wano...and Linlinn's...story.

Looking at the big picture, it's no coincidence that one of the major themes and several related plot threads therein revolve around the concept of taming and holding mastery over other beings, the concept of genuine loyalty, loyalty vs freedom of choice, numbers vs team work/unity...as such, Zoro and Enma have a lot to hash out before Zoro can even humor the though out of taking another crack at Kaido any time soon following the disaster that's to unfold.

Going off on a related tangent ( again ), I'm counting down the months here until Spring/Early Summer's in full swing...I was settled on the first week of April being when the hammer would fall on the good guys in the battle right now, but only fitting ( in a more pragmatic and overall thematic sense ) some margin % of error be considered to account for anything which may delay the outcome...just as Oden's own predictions didn't exactly pan out on the basis of the timeline he was expecting.

It's a roundabout way of saying that neither April Fools, the Dawn of Spring, or the triumph of the Sun may exactly coincide exactly align with those dates and schedules one might assume...be it due to Covid, a fate set in stone being somehow postponed in a narrative sense, or Oda simply wishing to fuck with us and impart some valuable lessons to what's becoming a very shortsighted, toxic, and often brain-fucked community*

*not addressing anyone here, mind you, I'm talking about the usual suspects ( you all know whom ) to be found all throughout Reddit, Worstgen, and so forth...the rancid dipshits all too quick and eager to dismiss anything that doesn't mesh with their fixed, myopic view of where things stand, forever and ever until Oda shows and tells otherwise. And you best bet he will, because you can be sure Oda's sick and tired of seeing this kinda crap in not just the world at large but the overall One Piece community no less.

So yeah, anyone too transfixed on the certainties of what will or will not happen will be obliged to eats lots of shit soon enough. Hell, I wager it's already happened for quite a few of us. I for one couldn't bring myself to belief that Kyoshiro was Denjiro, for instance, but Oda sure fixed that lol.

By the same token, where earlier in the year I was firm in my belief the Strawhats would lose this battle, falling far short of Yonko status or its cusp...but I've recently come to amend my predictions: they may not succeed here, or even in the next battle, and it's going to take quite a bit of plot and training....but by the time the Wano arc truly ends -- it's "officially" ending come April/May or thereabouts, but for all purposes continuing beyond that under a somewhat different title *wink wink* -- you will see Luffy fully capable of taking on admirals and Yonko...Zoro will prove capable of defeating King and later killing Kaido ( not in the way most think )...Sanji will defeat Queen, as so much of his rabid fanbase have long desired ( along with scoring a win/draw against a certain rival of his along the way, cuz fuck shonen hierarchies, says I...and Oda ).

In a way, it's succinctly invalidating and validating lots of fervent theories, hopes, and dreams in glorious, elegant quantum mechanical fashion; everyone was wrong, yet everyone was right; many theorists were wrong in ways, and yet they were also right in others; even the Zoro vs. Sanji fuckwits will ultimately get what they want, just maybe not the way each camp would've expected...they'll just have to eat their words as the momentum both flows and ebbs both for and against their idols in chaotic ( or is that orderly...? heh ) fashion. Such is the nature of superiority of might, conflict, power in general, the tides...and nature/the universe itself.

Exceptions to every rule -- Cycles -- Balance -- The Power of Imagination -- Endless Possibilities -- Perception -- Keeping an Open Mind

But yeah, swinging back to Zoro and Enma, I believe there's a lot more to be mined out of their mutual relationship, back stories, abilities...everything. We've only glimpsed the tip of the iceburg here. In many ways, exploring the depths of wielder and sword alike will grant us plenty of insight into a great many mysteries and topics in the OP landscape. To wit, both Enma and Zoro are capable of so much more than what's been shown thus far at face value.

That said, Enma isn't the only special weapon out there; mentioned it elsewhere, but Oden's other sword is going to get some some significant attention and hype soon enough as well. In its own way, it'll prove just as powerful and vital to Zoro's growth as Enma, albeit in a much different, perhaps even contradictory way

 

[Best Generation]

Still, it doesn't mean that Zoro should be over Luffy's rivals. What's the point of Kid or Law then?

Like, no offense because I think you mean well, but it just feels like you have a big problem with the current state of Luffy & Zoro's "partnership" you could say. Even though, I think you already made the case pretty convincingly but still there is some kind of issue here. You acknowledge that Zoro is portrayed from the beginning as Luffy's equal leading up to Enies Lobby were for the first time Luffy is ahead(after all, he just obtained g2/g3 were as Zoro reached a peak in his fight that he wasn't able to replicate yet as we know it). So it makes sense why Luffy would be ahead from this point onwards and that is why Zoro obtained a better sword that he could master in Thriller Bark, evening it out more than before. Then comes basically the seperation and we get 3D2Y. Standard is reset, everything is possible. Though, Oda seems to go the route were both are more equal than we think but its up in the air. He doesn't let us know what Zoro is capable of and is basically ignoring the whole dynamic, why? Because Oda doesn't want any shine on Zoro until Wano, Wano is supposed to be arc were Zoro and Luffy will both go all out. So what happens? Both get great portrayal, Luffy seems to be still ahead but nonetheless both are very impressive and can do comparable damage to Kaido, yet. Zoro will still get stronger and master Enma, blacken it possible and find the balance between all 3 swords for like the max improvement basically. Which means Zoro will get significantly stronger, probably very close to Kaido, if not even surpassing him. Luffy on the other hand holds back, he still can show way more and improve furthermore in all his combat skills and might even invent a new technique, either way he will be stronger than Kaido or Big Mom this arc, no matter what you try to read into it. You can say Zoro can't get as strong as Kaido because Kaido is an enemy that Luffy has to defeat or something like that. Clearly, that is not happening, Oda makes this a tag team battle and Zoro/Luffy are the once being portrayed as having the best shot at defeating them. Even though Kid has the dream to become PK, Zoro is being more impressive. Now, should we say that this is not possible just because Kid wants to be PK? Of course not, the same is true for Luffy and Zoro. The goal of PK can be harder but its kinda beside the point at this stage of the game. Yes, who falls will be closer to become PK, but thats because Kaido/Big Mom/Luffy/Kid want to become PK, of course, from their perspective its what they care about. Would Kaido say, "whoever wins this, will be closer to becoming the worlds greatest swordsman?" Of course not, that makes no sense, so don't get hung up on it. Mihawk noted, that becoming PK is harder than surpassing him, of course, because its true. You basically have to be "world strongest swordsman"+having a super strong crew+beating all or most Yonko's+finding the Road Poneglyphs+finding One Piece and all the consequences that come with it. He is not even technically speaking of strength, he is just stating a fact. So its not a surprise that Zoro can reach the some power highs as Luffy because that portayal was there from the beginning. Be glad zoro finally gets the justice he deserves for like 10 years now, come on...let him shine

 

[Ghidorah Guy]

Based on silhouette Hybrid-o looks more like Omega Shenron the Porunga.... I am dissappointed....

Worry not, friend. I'm fairly certain advanced Zoans can reconfigure their form in a manner by-no-means-coincidentally-similar to Chopper and his Rumble Ball transformations. So while what we'll see next week will represent his most basic Hybrid Form, there's still more to come, including a more large scale Porunga form that'll prove most helpful against other like-scaled opponents much later in the story.

A real Clash of the Titans, baby, straight up Kaiju on Kaiju battle royale.

Right now, it's fairly clear that a more sleek, faster form that presents a much smaller target is what's called for against these quick, agile fucks. I think many of us would agree that his dragon form is best suited for spamming AOE attacks and what not against large numbers of weaker enemies. However, there'll be sufficient time and reason behind going giant size later on, only sporting a form more oriented towards CQC battle against equally massive foes.

On that note, I wonder of there're any giant-sized kanabo/clubs laying around matching the scale of that giant sword on Onigashima? The latter is all but certain to play a role later in the final battle, but I doubt it'll be Kaido wielding it, or at least ever planned to, meaning he might already have a contingency in place in the event of going full Porunga...unless his current weapon is fully capable of going giant size as well in lockstep with his df transformations, that is. Maybe it's just artistic license at play, but it seems to me his weapon's size in proportion to Kaido hasn't changed much at all, despite Kaido's current form quite obviously having surpassed Big Mom's in scale.

So there may be something to be said there on potential interactions between DF powers and weapons as special as Kaido's whatever that entails. Heh, considering the trajectory I see DF Awakenings taking, tying into certain prominent myths, I wonder if we won't see Kaido's kanabo turning out to not only possess a will all its own, but eventually adopting the form of a draconic pseudo-homie by means of Kaido's Awakening....Just as artur and the folks over at Ohara speculated as being an ability of Logia Awakenings, the ability to grant life, only Zoan-oriented here.

What I'm saying is that Kaido may have the ability to turn his kanabo into a sentient, talking weapon...assuming it isn't already sentient in nature already, with Kaido simply providing it a physical "voice" and more direct means of interacting w/ the outside world.

...I'll just come out and say it, I think Kaido's weapon will constitute a reference to the enchanted talking mace Sharur of the Summerrian Sumerian Warrior God Ninurta. To go along with other clubs, enchanted or otherwise, such as that of Hercules or Thor's Mjolnir...essentially making Kaido a "corrupted" version of all these deities, mish-mashed with elements and qualities of their monstrous nemeses. In effect, Kaido is what you get when you combine heroic Warrior/Sky Gods with the serpentine/draconic monsters they faced in myth...the Eastern weather-manipulating dragon being an elegant fusion of both.

But yes, I'll leave this off by saying every instinct of mine is telling me Law's comment towards the end of this chapter is a telling sign that zoan transformations -- and many a great other things -- and associated assumptions/give beliefs will require re-evaluation on the parts of we the readers and several of the characters. There's a whole can of wyrms I mean worms waiting to be opened here.

That must be his hybrid form! Ha, sure, Law/Oda, sure. There's no plot twist coming here being signaled by saying this out loud. Just as I'm sure there's shoe to be dropped concerning Queen and King's curious reacted to Marco's powers. Suuuure thing.

So much....theater a play here.

But yeah, Porunga Kaido....and the One Piece variant of Dragonballs, among multiple other mythological references...def incoming.
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A while ago we also got some throwbacks to thriller bark. We had a coverpage with the risky brothers squirrels, and the next one was blackbeard brushing his teeth with a hippo that looks suspiciously like Gentleman Hippo:

I think Moria accepted Blackbeards offer to join his crew.

So far as the Hippo is concerned, I think @Nessos and others can attest to the surprising relevance of Hippos, both the animal and other readings, have to certain characters. He could probably elaborate further in greater detail.

I'll add my own take on what this scene represents in the grander scope of things: long, long ago, the Hippo-type Minks and others saw themselves obliged to abandon Zou or whatever the Mink homeland was at the time to avoid becoming food; them were the breaks when you occupied the lowest rung of the Mink social ladder due to lacking fur and/or whatever other arbitrary forms of prejudice existed at the time....like say being an aquatic mammal-type Mink.

Anyways, these Hippo-types' descendants would go to form many influential and powerful families throughout the outside world, including but not limited to the families of

Spoiler: these guys:

Lol. And Blackbeard as well.

I'll leave it to Nessos to divulge Zoro's connection to Hippos, if he so chooses, as he's more knowledgeable about the details and the theorist who originated the idea ( name eludes me at the moment ); not my own theory, nor its connections to Orochi. I may not agree with the exact particulars of certain other aspects of said theory, but the basic framework is one I can buy into, and it's intriguing nonetheless. Assuming said theorist is correct, my own contribution is that Zoro's parentage per said theory might also connect Zoro to....

Spoiler: this guy

Haha. Kuromarimo ( Kuro/Black+ Marimo/Seaweed ) and Zoro, or as Sanji calls him on occasion....Marimo Head.

However it pans out -- and contrasting theories need to be entirely mutually exclusive -- I do think there's sufficient evidence to Hippo Minks having greatly influenced the history of the OP landscape. You might say they and other lessay unique sub-groups of all the other inhuman races...these lost tribes...would go to play a very important role in human history itself. Cuz in the world of One Piece, Darwin's Evolution Theory is far broader and wider encompassing in terms of humanity's origins than even Darwin himself could've ever imagined.

As for Moriah, I went in the opposite direction at first...with Moriah joining another rival unit of the resurgent Rocks ( basically Shiki, as Moriah's fuck you to Blackbeard ). But hey, I keep rambling on about not discounting the unlikely or impossible, so I'm now a believer: Moriah will join up with BB despite Absa's seeming death...temporarily, that is. But then, I think Moriah's just biding his time until he jump ship and take revenge. And he will.

On the flipside, I think we'll see Shiki basically claiming the next batch of prisoners available soon to be available on Impel, including not just Doffy but possibly Hancock as well, only for Doflamingo to later bail on Shiki to shack up w/ BB in turn.

In other words, lots of pieces being moved around...alliances being quickly forged, regorged, and (re)broken...crew members jumping ship and returning to the fold...

That one seemingly throwaway gag scene with Franky running to and fro searching for the plans for Kaido's mansion? Wasn't the truncated subplot many of us figured it to be, a sign of Oda being pressed for time or whatever....this otherwise "pointless" page-waster imo was actually a major portent of what's to come in terms of the wildly fluctuating status quo, or rather a rapid series of transient, highly unstable, impermanent status quos, to come.

Shit's going to fly off the handle in quick succession in crazy, unpredictable ( or shall we say unpredictably predictable heh) ways in short order.

 

[Fallen Prince]

Dont worry everyone will be toast in next chapter.

 

[Nessos]

I'll leave it to Nessos to divulge Zoro's connection to Hippos, if he so chooses, as he's more knowledgeable about the details and the theorist who originated the idea ( name eludes me at the moment );

It was a theory of Rob Gucci, he made ~1 year before Wano started.

The True Origins of Zoro - One Piece

Originally, Roronoa Zoro was going to be a member of Buggy’s crew, his bodyguard to be exact. But Oda scrapped those intentions and made Zoro the 3 blade wielding pirate we all know and love today. But the question is… why? Why did Oda take this would be forgettable character and turn him into such

www.opfanpage.com

For him Hippo from colorspread represent Zoros family. Funny that Orochi ended up representing a Hippo and Kurozumi Zoro became a Common theory.

I don't see any hint in cover request were Teach appears together with Hippo since Teach actually represents a Hippo as seen in SBS 95 Animals representing WorstGen Members.
(There was also a theory about Teach having the Hippo DF as third DF, cause Hippos have 3 stomachs, this theory got hyped once again cause of SBS 95)
Thus seeing Teach with a Hippo is like seeing Luffy with a Monkey.
There even exist a Marshall D Hippo figure.

Spoiler

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So while what we'll see next week will represent his most basic Hybrid Form, there's still more to come, including a more large scale Porunga form that'll prove most helpful against other like-scaled opponents much later in the story.

With Porunga end up being Kaidous Monsterpoint
Basically his representing his awakening similiar to the Beastguards of Impeldown

 

[Magimasterkarp]

hybrid sea creatures such as the Fighting Fish and what not...

Dellinger is just a half fishman. There was a mistranslation that called him a "descendant of the fighting fish", but that's bullshit. He's just a half fishman model fighting fish. He may have used his fish speak powers to lure the fighting fish to dressrosa, but he is not related to them.

 

[Fallen Prince]

I hope they focus on sanji in Act 4 .

 

[Srundenx]

I would say the latest chapter shows there's more to Enma than simply channeling the wielder's own haki in bulk. The emphasis Kaido placed on the sword likely hints at Enma possessing a certain unique power all its own, independent of Zoro's respective own strength.

I look it at it as Enma being somewhat similar to a homie, particularly Napoleon: just way more flexible in terms of its potential wielders and its overt ability to actively leech away haki. Like Napoleon, it possesses its own power -- be it sourced from its own "will" ala Merry/Labautermann, Oden, or any others it's tied to, or likely a combination thereof just to promote the ever-prevailing theme of legacy -- but it can enhance itself by means of an infusion of power from its wielder; in Enma's case -- and imo that of pretty much any Cursed Sword, potentially speaking - this poses a two-way street: sword and wielder can empower each other, if not swap places, depending on who's asserting the greater influence over whom . Let's just say Enma, like Gear 4, may come with certain drawbacks attached to the overall package, so it may be too early to deem it the best....or at least, I'm pretty sure we'll be given much greater reason to doubt its merits pretty soon; writing's on the wall as to how dangerously volatile and detrimental it will prove to someone yet to master it

Anway, same kinda principle here, I think, so far as the sword/homie comparison goes...the real fun begins when Zoro learns how to not only commune w/ his swords but aligning their wills with his own, without necessarily forcing them to....similar to Nami's own partnership with Zeus, to a lesser extent. Add a dash of legitimate loyalty beyond mere self-interest, and that's when the magic really happens, as seen with Big Mom and her homies...though we've arguably yet to even see what happens when Zeus, Prometheus, and Napoleon are the ones to take the initiative through self-determined actin in support of Big Mom....but spoiler warning, we will....much later in the climactic finale of Wano...and Linlinn's...story.

Looking at the big picture, it's no coincidence that one of the major themes and several related plot threads therein revolve around the concept of taming and holding mastery over other beings, the concept of genuine loyalty, loyalty vs freedom of choice, numbers vs team work/unity...as such, Zoro and Enma have a lot to hash out before Zoro can even humor the though out of taking another crack at Kaido any time soon following the disaster that's to unfold.

Going off on a related tangent ( again ), I'm counting down the months here until Spring/Early Summer's in full swing...I was settled on the first week of April being when the hammer would fall on the good guys in the battle right now, but only fitting ( in a more pragmatic and overall thematic sense ) some margin % of error be considered to account for anything which may delay the outcome...just as Oden's own predictions didn't exactly pan out on the basis of the timeline he was expecting.

It's a roundabout way of saying that neither April Fools, the Dawn of Spring, or the triumph of the Sun may exactly coincide exactly align with those dates and schedules one might assume...be it due to Covid, a fate set in stone being somehow postponed in a narrative sense, or Oda simply wishing to fuck with us and impart some valuable lessons to what's becoming a very shortsighted, toxic, and often brain-fucked community*

*not addressing anyone here, mind you, I'm talking about the usual suspects ( you all know whom ) to be found all throughout Reddit, Worstgen, and so forth...the rancid dipshits all too quick and eager to dismiss anything that doesn't mesh with their fixed, myopic view of where things stand, forever and ever until Oda shows and tells otherwise. And you best bet he will, because you can be sure Oda's sick and tired of seeing this kinda crap in not just the world at large but the overall One Piece community no less.

So yeah, anyone too transfixed on the certainties of what will or will not happen will be obliged to eats lots of shit soon enough. Hell, I wager it's already happened for quite a few of us. I for one couldn't bring myself to belief that Kyoshiro was Denjiro, for instance, but Oda sure fixed that lol.

By the same token, where earlier in the year I was firm in my belief the Strawhats would lose this battle, falling far short of Yonko status or its cusp...but I've recently come to amend my predictions: they may not succeed here, or even in the next battle, and it's going to take quite a bit of plot and training....but by the time the Wano arc truly ends -- it's "officially" ending come April/May or thereabouts, but for all purposes continuing beyond that under a somewhat different title *wink wink* -- you will see Luffy fully capable of taking on admirals and Yonko...Zoro will prove capable of defeating King and later killing Kaido ( not in the way most think )...Sanji will defeat Queen, as so much of his rabid fanbase have long desired ( along with scoring a win/draw against a certain rival of his along the way, cuz fuck shonen hierarchies, says I...and Oda ).

In a way, it's succinctly invalidating and validating lots of fervent theories, hopes, and dreams in glorious, elegant quantum mechanical fashion; everyone was wrong, yet everyone was right; many theorists were wrong in ways, and yet they were also right in others; even the Zoro vs. Sanji fuckwits will ultimately get what they want, just maybe not the way each camp would've expected...they'll just have to eat their words as the momentum both flows and ebbs both for and against their idols in chaotic ( or is that orderly...? heh ) fashion. Such is the nature of superiority of might, conflict, power in general, the tides...and nature/the universe itself.

Exceptions to every rule -- Cycles -- Balance -- The Power of Imagination -- Endless Possibilities -- Perception -- Keeping an Open Mind

But yeah, swinging back to Zoro and Enma, I believe there's a lot more to be mined out of their mutual relationship, back stories, abilities...everything. We've only glimpsed the tip of the iceburg here. In many ways, exploring the depths of wielder and sword alike will grant us plenty of insight into a great many mysteries and topics in the OP landscape. To wit, both Enma and Zoro are capable of so much more than what's been shown thus far at face value.

That said, Enma isn't the only special weapon out there; mentioned it elsewhere, but Oden's other sword is going to get some some significant attention and hype soon enough as well. In its own way, it'll prove just as powerful and vital to Zoro's growth as Enma, albeit in a much different, perhaps even contradictory way

I've said that, it was because Oden's soul reside within Enma.

Those makes Enma have 2 special traits, Oden's soul, and its ability to draw more Ryuo from the user.
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I hope they focus on sanji in Act 4 .

This act thing wasn't like episode, or just a mere chapters....it has a meaning...

Act 3 will obviously end with despair from the Alliance, while Act 4 will show us hope from all of the executives battle (Sanji included of course), then Act 5 short conclusion, maybe flashback....

 

[Fallen Prince]

I've said that, it was because Oden's soul reside within Enma.

Those makes Enma have 2 special traits, Oden's soul, and its ability to draw more Ryuo from the user.
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This act thing wasn't like episode, or just a mere chapters....it has a meaning...

Act 3 will obviously end with despair from the Alliance, while Act 4 will show us hope from all of the executives battle (Sanji included of course), then Act 5 short conclusion, maybe flashback....

Yea i am frustruated lol. I really want him to shine so that i can brag anout him to zoro stans in the discord channel (jk)

Joke aside yes its pretty much it Jybrid form will crush SN. I am not sure what tragedy we eill see Oda did not kill scabbard very little dpubt any SN will die.

Act 4 will be level down fight. Who's who is CP0 that is really interesting part so what interest does he have on Jinbei though.

 

[Nessos]

I hope they focus on sanji in Act 4 .

Act 3 ain't over yet

 

[Ghidorah Guy]

With Porunga end up being Kaidous Monsterpoint

In terms of it being his trump card? I would say so, though not his final form. Kind of a moot point tho, in a practical battle sense, as the ultimate Awakenings of devil fruits aren't something I foresee what few users we'll see putting to use in a fight. We're talking Spiritual Enlightenment/Ascension to Godhood here, so violence and chestbeating is kind antithetical to this. Though if anyone would be somewhat an exception to this, it'd be Luffy in his final vs. Blackbeard. But even then, he'd just be pulling a Kung Fu Panda-sorta trick.

Basically his representing his awakening similiar to the Beastguards of Impeldown

Ha, fuck those clowns. IMO, these forms are just the first ( failed ) phase of Awakening, with Chopper managing to retain his mental faculties + his Point transformations representing the benefits of a successful foray into what constitutes a process -- consisting of a series of steps/phases akin to the stages of actual sleep and Spiritual Enlightenment in various schools of theophilosophy. Think Chakra points, Jacob's Ladder, kundalini, the Sephiroth, and all that jazz.

By that same token, Chopper's got his own "Porunga Kaido" or greater equivalent to unveil down the line too: a Kirin/Qilin transformation and Horned Nature God/Horned Human Sage/Demonic Buddha/Cernunnos form.

One might argue that a Kirin/Qilin would fall outside the realm of a human devil fruit's Awakening....but what is say the Life Return ability inherent to the Rokushiki school of martial arts and its mastery but a metaphysical powers one would would associate with a super-powered human age...a spiritually enlightened superman....one who could use Life Return to unlocking godly shapeshifting abilities that could take advantage of one's entire genetic/evolutionary/metaphysical lineage, past and future?

Chopper started his ( current ) life as Reindeer, he'll ironically use his human sage powers to become the Ultimate Reindeer. And along the way the legend of Rudolph the Blue/Red Nosed Reindeer or whatever will be born too.

Chopper staying true to his reindeer origins ( again, in this life ) and keeping his horns for the most part no matter how skilled he becomes w/ his devil fruit powers -- or in spite of them, even...Blackbeard and others gonna fuck w/ dat at two specific junctures -- would tie into the grander philosophy of throwing nothing away, and embracing n holding true to one's path in life from beginning to end ( in the ways that truly matter, at least ).

It kinda begs the question, one I already think I know the answer to, and something Oda's all but foreshadowed already: what was Kaido's dream early in life, and what if any animal would he wish to become in his next life if he could choose so? And I'm not just talking under the grip of despair or guilt ala the Strawhats back in Thrillerbark, though I willing to bet money this the fate and set of circumstances which befell say Papugg in his previous life.

I...want to be reborn as a [ insert humble lil sea creature here ]...

 

[Nicolo Makaveli]

You acknowledge that Zoro is portrayed from the beginning as Luffy's equal

No, not from the beginning! In east blue Luffy was clearly portrayed as stronger than Zoro, Oda changed that in whiskey peak where Luffy and Zoro had a fight whiteout conclusion but Oda's motives were clear (he wanted to show that Zoro is as strong or even stronger than Luffy). Even in Little garden Luffy was again shown to be stronger than Zoro by big margin while Zoro was portrayed to be as Sanji's rival; Sanji was also portrayed to be Zoro's equal first time in the story.

This scene is the direct parallel of Dorry and Brogy's backstory where their rivalry started from the same reason: both Zoro vs Sanji and Dorry vs Brogy started when they couldn't figure out who killed the biggest sea king/beast, and eventually none of them could defeat the other one for 200 years, proving that they were dead equal in their strength. Look here

Even their designs are similar...

Luffy's

He's actually portrayed to be stronger than Luffy: Zoro awakened both CoO and CoA way earlier than Luffy and Zoro awakened Ryou in Alabasta while Luffy managed to do it only in Wano. Zoro also took all of Luffy's pain on top of his own so... as a Zoro fan boy you can make your own conclusion.

Wano is supposed to be arc were Zoro and Luffy will both go all out. So what happens? Both get great portrayal

both get great portrayal, Are serious mate? Luffy's thousand punches did almost nothing to Kaido, so much so that Kaido is having fun. Do you know when Kaido stopped having fun? When Zoro used his OP attack that was so powerful that Kaido needed to dodge. Luffy looks pathetic compared Zoro; unlike Zoro Luffy has fought against: Doffy, Cracker, Katakuri, Meme and received his first post-timskip power up FS, then he trained in Udon and received "Internal destruction" haki, but dispite all of this... Zoro is still stronger than Luffy, he's just that strong cuz Oda has sexual filings towards his lover Zoro.

Luffy seems to be still ahead but nonetheless both are very impressive and can do comparable damage to Kaido,

How the hell is Luffy stronger, why do everyone keep ignoring the fact, that the first attack that Kaido ever avoided in entire series was from Zoro!? How the fu*k can Luffy even be comparable to Zoro at this point? Luffy will be equal to Zoro only at the end of Wano (maybe even stronger).

The goal of PK can be harder but its kinda beside the point at this stage of the game. Yes, who falls will be closer to become PK, but thats because Kaido/Big Mom/Luffy/Kid want to become PK, of course, from their perspective its what they care about. Would Kaido say, "whoever wins this, will be closer to becoming the worlds greatest swordsman?" Of course not, that makes no sense, so don't get hung up on it. Mihawk noted, that becoming PK is harder than surpassing him, of course, because its true. You basically have to be "world strongest swordsman"+having a super strong crew+beating all or most Yonko's+finding the Road Poneglyphs+finding One Piece and all the consequences that come with it. He is not even technically speaking of strength, he is just stating a fact. So its not a surprise that Zoro can reach the some power highs as Luffy because that portayal was there from the beginning.

Ok, let me put it this way... if Roger "the pirate king" was alive then Luffy would need to defeat him in order to become the next PK. But Roger is dead, instead, we have 4 equal in strength (almost equal) pirates who are trying to become the next PK and Luffy needs to defeat them to become the next PK. Mihawk is the current WSS and Zoro needs to defeat him in order to become the next WSS; but what if he was dead? Instead of one WSS there were 4 equally strong swordsmen who were trying to become the next WSS.

Now the question: would you be happy if Luffy interfered in Zoro vs (one of this 4 swordsmen) and outperformed Zoro dispite not being a swordsmen or having any interest in that title?

 

[Ghidorah Guy]

Dellinger is just a half fishman. There was a mistranslation that called him a "descendant of the fighting fish", but that's bullshit. He's just a half fishman model fighting fish. He may have used his fish speak powers to lure the fighting fish to dressrosa, but he is not related to them.

What I mean is that the Fighting Fish as a species are a kind of chimaeric creature, ie bull + fish, similar to the various Sea Beasts in the oceans of OP.

Going with this, the Tobi Roppo/Calamities may all be half-Fishman like Derringer with wonky OP fish-type blood, e.g. a hybrid human-fishman whose fishman type is say a Sea Elephant or Sea Rooster or some crazy shit like that.

In other words, the Beast Pirates may be packing double or triple racial advantages/animal powers just to really stack the odds in their favors. Gets worse if they can all reconfigure themselves into various forms ala Chopper too.

 

[Best Generation]

No, not from the beginning! In east blue Luffy was clearly portrayed as stronger than Zoro, Oda changed that in whiskey peak where Luffy and Zoro had a fight whiteout conclusion but Oda's motives were clear (he wanted to show that Zoro is as strong or even stronger than Luffy). Even in Little garden Luffy was again shown to be stronger than Zoro by big margin while Zoro was portrayed to be as Sanji's rival; Sanji was also portrayed to be Zoro's equal first time in the story.

This scene is the direct parallel of Dorry and Brogy's backstory where their rivalry started from the same reason: both Zoro vs Sanji and Dorry vs Brogy started when they couldn't figure out who killed the biggest sea king/beast, and eventually none of them could defeat the other one for 200 years, proving that they were dead equal in their strength. Look here

Even their designs are similar...

He's actually portrayed to be stronger than Luffy: Zoro awakened both CoO and CoA way earlier than Luffy and Zoro awakened Ryou in Alabasta while Luffy managed to do it only in Wano. Zoro also took all of Luffy's pain on top of his own so... as a Zoro fan boy you can make your own conclusion.
both get great portrayal, Are serious mate? Luffy's thousand punches did almost nothing to Kaido, so much so that Kaido is having fun. Do you know when Kaido stopped having fun? When Zoro used his OP attack that was so powerful that Kaido needed to dodge. Luffy looks pathetic compared Zoro; unlike Zoro Luffy has fought against: Doffy, Cracker, Katakuri, Meme and received his first post-timskip power up FS, then he trained in Udon and received "Internal destruction" haki, but dispite all of this... Zoro is still stronger than Luffy, he's just that strong cuz Oda has sexual filings towards his lover Zoro.

How the hell is Luffy stronger, why do everyone keep ignoring the fact, that the first attack that Kaido ever avoided in entire series was from Zoro!? How the fu*k can Luffy even be comparable to Zoro at this point? Luffy will be equal to Zoro only at the end of Wano (maybe even stronger).

Ok, let me put it this way... if Roger "the pirate king" was alive then Luffy would need to defeat him in order to become the next PK. But Roger is dead, instead, we have 4 equal in strength (almost equal) pirates who are trying to become the next PK and Luffy needs to defeat them to become the next PK. Mihawk is the current WSS and Zoro needs to defeat him in order to become the next WSS; but what if he was dead? Instead of one WSS there were 4 equally strong swordsmen who were trying to become the next WSS.

Now the question: would you be happy if Luffy interfered in Zoro vs (one of this 4 swordsmen) and outperformed Zoro dispite not being a swordsmen or having any interest in that title?

Did want to end on a note you agree on, but appearently you disagree with the argument you made...the point is not if it was on chapter 110 or 130...(also, what I am talking about is there since chapter 5 or so, there is some in between time before Sanji joins and becomes Nami's tool)

Its like your problem is that Zoro and others are fighting alongside Luffy against Kaido and Big Mom, which is only the beginning of the fight and a lot of single fights will happen. Yes, the winner becomes closer to the PK throne, this fight isn't about becoming Pirate King though. This is not Luffy fighting Blackbeard and Zoro interfers. Having crew mates that are able to fight against Yonko's is not a bad thing...its almost like the plot of Zoro, that he is someone who follows only Luffy and in any other crew would be the captain has actually some remifications. Yes, he is someone that would be as deadly or almost as deadly as Luffy, but he still follows Luffy, because he recognizes Luffy's greatness. Hence, why he bowed down to Mihawk and why he put his dream 2nd to Luffy's. Its like the point of his story line and having issue with that when it actually is unfolding how it should unfold, especially when you consider that Oda had to wait 10 years to finally show us Zoro's progress I think shouldn't be believed. Maybe there is an understanding here that would be enjoyable for you. Sometimes, one just focuses on things that aren't as important and miss the more central message.

 

[Pepper]

Look at all these essays. I didn't know this was the theory thread.

 

[Ghidorah Guy]

Look at all these essays. I didn't know this was the theory thread.

 

[Fallen Prince]

I do agree Oda wanks Zoro hell a lot than luffy. I dont think he will ever put up a situation where zoro is one shotted.

Luffy is always underdog cjamp and Oda kinda likes it that way to keep him down .

Oda will never do this to Zoro (Hate to say wank fro mangaka exist).
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Look at all these essays. I didn't know this was the theory thread.

I think at least better discussion thread than WG lol where they just wank zkk for no reason.

 

[Nicolo Makaveli]

Its like your problem is that Zoro and others are fighting alongside Luffy against Kaido and Big Mom, which is only the beginning of the fight and a lot of single fights will happen.

You're wrong, I'm not against Kid and Law fighting against Kaido, I have issues with killer but I can close my eyes on it since we don't know his motivations and who he fought before Kaido. I have problems with Zoro fighting against Kaido but I'm willing to accept that too, the biggest problem that I will never accept is that Zoro has become the leading force of this battle (or one of the leading forces).

Oda spent 10 years for Luffy to grow for this battle, he fought against: Doffy, Cracker, Katakuri, Meme and received two significant power ups, but dispite all of this Zoro is still better than Luffy, how? Why? For what fu*king reason? If the point was to show how pathetic Luffy is then Oda succeeded it.

Luffy's attacks with advanced CoA are nothing for Kaido, people pretend like Luffy did some insane amount of damage to Kaido when Kaido is just having fun, he doesn't even consider Luffy's attacks worthy of dodging or protecting himself with armament haki. Zoro on the other hand, has so much OP attack power that Kaido for first time in the series dodged an attack and that attack was from Zoro. All Luffy's fights and training aren't even enough to make him as strong as Zoro in a fu*king fight for the PK throne, Luffy has become the most disgusting and pathetic character I've ever seen. But it doesn't end there, Oda needs to completely destroy Luffy by showing how far Luffy is from Zoro; Zoro not just overpowers Kaido's thecnique with his own but also has enough power to cut Kaido afterwards.

Luffy now has become a liability for Zoro since he needs to take care of his pathetic ass. Let's just not fu*king forget that this the fight against Emperors for the pirate king throne and this crucial moment for Luffy and Kid with PK related dream Zoro just overshadows them by miles, like WTF is going on?
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I do agree Oda wanks Zoro hell a lot than luffy. I dont think he will ever put up a situation where zoro is one shotted.

Luffy is always underdog cjamp and Oda kinda likes it that way to keep him down .

Oda will never do this to Zoro (Hate to say wank fro mangaka exist).

Dude it's not just that... Oda never allows Zoro even struggle, against anyone. When did Zoro struggle last time not counting his fight against Doze Bones? Never, that never happens! Oda loves when his boyfriend Zoro defeats his opponents with one single cut (one cut man lol) and I can guarantee you that Zoro will defeat king like that too; Zoro will not struggle against King at all and then he will defeat him with cut.

 

[Fallen Prince]

You're wrong, I'm not against Kid and Law fighting against Kaido, I have issues with killer but I can close my eyes on it since we don't know his motivations and who he fought before Kaido. I have problems with Zoro fighting against Kaido but I'm willing to accept that too, the biggest problem that I will never accept is that Zoro has become the leading force of this battle (or one of the leading forces).

Oda spent 10 years for Luffy to grow for this battle, he fought against: Doffy, Cracker, Katakuri, Meme and received two significant power ups, but dispite all of this Zoro is still better than Luffy, how? Why? For what fu*king reason? If the point was to show how pathetic Luffy is then Oda succeeded it.

Luffy's attacks with advanced CoA are nothing for Kaido, people pretend like Luffy did some insane amount of damage to Kaido when Kaido is just having fun, he doesn't even consider Luffy's attacks worthy of dodging or protecting himself with armament haki. Zoro on the other hand, has so much OP attack power that Kaido for first time in the series dodged an attack and that attack was from Zoro. All Luffy's fights and training aren't even enough to make him as strong as Zoro in a fu*king fight for the PK throne, Luffy has become the most disgusting and pathetic character I've ever seen. But it doesn't end there, Oda needs to completely destroy Luffy by showing how far Luffy is from Zoro; Zoro not just overpowers Kaido's thecnique with his own but also has enough power to cut Kaido afterwards.

Luffy now has become a liability for Zoro since he needs to take care of his pathetic ass. Let's just not fu*king forget that this the fight against Emperors for the pirate king throne and this crucial moment for Luffy and Kid with PK related dream Zoro just overshadows them by miles, like WTF is going on?
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Dude it's not just that... Oda never allows Zoro even struggle, against anyone. When did Zoro struggle last time not counting his fight against Doze Bones? Never, that never happens! Oda loves when his boyfriend Zoro defeats his opponents with one single cut (one cut man lol) and I can guarantee you that Zoro will defeat king like that too; Zoro will not struggle against King at all and then he will defeat him with cut.

Hmm this is why i think he will lose badly to Hybrid Kaido. Zoro yet to face commanders i am damn sure he might struggle against King, kata, marco in one on one.

Even though zoro's feat in wano are better than any of shp that includes luffy.He actually did better so i ll give credit where its due.

 

[Nicolo Makaveli]

Hmm this is why i think he will lose badly to Hybrid Kaido.

Just like everybody else, but Oda might remove Zoro from the fight before they lose to protect him.

Zoro yet to face commanders i am damn sure he might struggle against King, kata, marco in one on one.

Considering how OP Enma is Zoro needs only one successful cut to defeat any YC at this point, also Zoro will receive power ups in fight against Kaido so that he could easily win against king just like Oda wants.