Current Events Will the Raid fail?

[Chris Mic]

I'm sure most of us can agree it will fail. There's "fail" flags EVERYWHERE. But one thing I don't see mentioned often is this: the raid is happening in Act 3. In Japanese Kabuki plays, the 3rd act is where the main event goes down and it's marked by a great tragedy. The raid will fail in a crushing defeat for the alliance. In the next final 2 acts, 4 and 5, most likely 4 (5 might just be an epilogue) the real final battle will happen IN Wano, as the Onigashima raid will be a failure.

 

[Lemonade]

I'm sure most of us can agree it will fail. There's "fail" flags EVERYWHERE. But one thing I don't see mentioned often is this: the raid is happening in Act 3. In Japanese Kabuki plays, the 3rd act is where the main event goes down and it's marked by a great tragedy. The raid will fail in a crushing defeat for the alliance. In the next final 2 acts, 4 and 5, most likely 4 (5 might just be an epilogue) the real final battle will happen IN Wano, as the Onigashima raid will be a failure.

What if Oda anticipates people predicting the raid will fail and does major twisted plots with the raid succeeding

It could go anywhere but since we're getting the flashbacks now, I could see Orochi dying brutally in Act 3 itself but the main war begins elsewhere.

 

[Chris Mic]

What if Oda anticipates people predicting the raid will fail and does major twisted plots with the raid succeeding

It could go anywhere but since we're getting the flashbacks now, I could see Orochi dying brutally in Act 3 itself but the main war begins elsewhere.

Ooooh, that'd be a nice subversion! Orochi dying, but the conflict is far from over, for perhaps Kyoshiro takes over and makes things even worse. Perhaps, so that even the people of the capital open their eyes to the chaos of their own country.

 

[Lemonade]

Ooooh, that'd be a nice subversion! Orochi dying, but the conflict is far from over, for perhaps Kyoshiro takes over and makes things even worse. Perhaps, so that even the people of the capital open their eyes to the chaos of their own country.

Yep. I still think Kyoshiro is the main antagonist who is actually working with Kaido behind the scenes. As for Hiyori working with him, it'll be a good character moment if she was initially bad all along because of her trauma and betrayed Zoro before becoming good (just like how Pudding betrayed Sanji). Because right now, it's looking like Orochi is a misdirection while Kyoshiro remains mysterious (and also smart and powerful).

So Orochi dying and Kyoshiro being the actual villain would be interesting. Act 3 will still be tragic because of the betrayal effect and Hiyori aligned with the enemy.

 

[Chris Mic]

Yep. I still think Kyoshiro is the main antagonist who is actually working with Kaido behind the scenes. As for Hiyori working with him, it'll be a good character moment if she was initially bad all along because of her trauma and betrayed Zoro before becoming good (just like how Pudding betrayed Sanji). Because right now, it's looking like Orochi is a misdirection while Kyoshiro remains mysterious (and also smart and powerful).

So Orochi dying and Kyoshiro being the actual villain would be interesting. Act 3 will still be tragic because of the betrayal effect and Hiyori aligned with the enemy.

I REALLY don't expect Hiyori/Komurasaki to just be like this for the duration of Wano, there's more to her. If she's a misguided vengeful person she might then be a more interesting character. We know she just hates Orochi, but she could be a third party with Kyoshiro, not necessarily good just for hating Orochi. The enemy of my enemy, I guess.

And Kyoshiro does look confident enough to be a mastermind. He handled Zoro well in the capital and he didn't seem to struggle at all, while Orochi saw a flying slash and went D:

 

[Waindo]

I'm sure most of us can agree it will fail. There's "fail" flags EVERYWHERE. But one thing I don't see mentioned often is this: the raid is happening in Act 3. In Japanese Kabuki plays, the 3rd act is where the main event goes down and it's marked by a great tragedy. The raid will fail in a crushing defeat for the alliance. In the next final 2 acts, 4 and 5, most likely 4 (5 might just be an epilogue) the real final battle will happen IN Wano, as the Onigashima raid will be a failure.

A-ha! Law dies in act 3, calling it now.

 

[Chris Mic]

A-ha! Law dies in act 3, calling it now.

I think Law will die this arc, but not in act 3. Whenever the final fight with Kaido is, then.

 

[Waindo]

I think Law will die this arc, but not in act 3. Whenever the final fight with Kaido is, then.

I had this hunch he might do some sort of reverse immortal surgery on Kaido, making Kaido moral and sacrificing his life in the process.

 

[Chris Mic]

I had this hunch he might do some sort of reverse immortal surgery on Kaido, making Kaido moral and sacrificing his life in the process.

Kaido is mortal though, he's just impossibly powerful. Unless it becomes a twist at some point he really is immortal and that's the real cause behind his depression. Maybe we'll learn in the raid, it could be the ultimate "WE CAN'T WIN, OH SHIT" moment to signify the raid's failure.

 

[Rej]

I think Law will die this arc, but not in act 3. Whenever the final fight with Kaido is, then.

So Law will die on Elbaf?

 

[Captain Khan]

So Law will die on Elbaf?

You think final fight with Kaido will take place on Elbaf ?
I also think Wano arc will not be the end of Kaido , I think he will start the war he is talking about at the end and leave Wano behind .
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There are already telltale signs of the raid failing but I guess this act will be mostly on the Oden flashback and Kinemon, Momonosoke's group being in despair separated from everyone .
Now that Orochi is introduced I think the tradegy of Act 3 in Kabuki Play will be how Oden lost his life . So if Oda goes that route I guess the raid may not fail but is on temporary hold . This all depends on how long the flashback lasts .

 

[Rej]

You think final fight with Kaido will take place on Elbaf ?
I also think Wano arc will not be the end of Kaido , I think he will start the war he is talking about at the end and leave Wano behind .
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There are already telltale signs of the raid failing but I guess this act will be mostly on the Oden flashback and Kinemon, Momonosoke's group being in despair separated from everyone .
Now that Orochi is introduced I think the tradegy of Act 3 in Kabuki Play will be how Oden lost his life . So if Oda goes that route I guess the raid may not fail but is on temporary hold . This all depends on how long the flashback lasts .

Yes I think Wano will result in a big chase.

First of all I wanna see the reformation of the Rocks pirate movement that has been teased, we have hints that all 4 Yonko are involved in the Rocks complot. Shanks could be a son, BB the one who really inherits the evil will of Xebec. That's some tendencies.
Kaido and Shanks meeting...it all ties to something I feel.

What the real essence about the Wano arc will be, is the essence revealed on Wano kuni, opening borders, Poneglyph information, AK information, more about inherited wills (Oden/Roger/Ancient Kingdom/Toki), that will all result and build up to the final of the arc or even the next arc.

We still have to tie in Marco and resolve him and the Whitebeard plot (with Ace) and it is more fitting in the overall "Rocks plot" than just the Kaido and Big Mom alliance on Wano.

All we can agree on is that Kaido ain't human, then what he is? He is more related to Ancient Giants than to normal giants. And the Onigashima Island hints to a special past. We will get official setups to giant-tribe related plotlines that will build up. Who is Loki? Is he good or evil? Who is the evil on Elbaf? Another evil giant? Yes ofc, why not, we had the evil fishmen, the evil skypieans (Enel), so why not an evil giant?
The Rocks pirates imho have to reform and we know era's switched, we know we still have to soak up some needed informations about the Giant Warrior Pirate era, something so we understand why the leaders of the different eras did what they did. And then we go into the new era that supposedly has to top all these.

I believe Wano will be just a skirmish, and it will be the arc where Luffy will reach the Yonko level, but he won't reach the Rocks alliance level with his alliance right now. Luffy is far away from shaking the world like Big Mom and Kaido would, like Rocks could.

Wano won't be an overstretched arc and I predict to upcomming phases before the end of the arc:
Phase 1 remaining:
The raid complot and the Wano resolution phase during the Fire Festival.
Here we will resolve all the Shogun, Hiyori, Kyoshiro, Oden stuff while starting the brawls against the Yonko alliance. We will directly have fodder/headliner fights and the highlight of the Numbers. Nekomamushi comes. Uncover more giant stuff and go voer to the second phase.
Phase 2 remaining:
The world involvement and the build up to the follow up.
Here we will resolve all open Wano plotlines and thematized topics like Vegapunk, the Seastone trading, Rogers egg, Ace, Luffy's rise to equality with Yonkos. Making Wano his turf. Jinbei/Marco involvement. Short Navy involvement, short Rocks heir invovlement with BB/Shanks.

So imho the raid will fail, but they will have a success in other ways.

Next would be The post Wano arc where we finally uncover the final Reverie informations (about Sabo and Vivi), where the Rocks will be reformed (so Big Mom and Kaido expand, and maybe join up with Blackbeard).

And I think the final step will be resolving Shanks before the final war.
Leading into Shanks vs Blackbeard (if not Wano) then it will be Elbaf which is also suspected to be turf of Shanks. So Shanks's arc could rly be Elbaf. It ties in to theories that Elbaf is also turf of the World Government (it happened in a change after Linlin killed dat giant hero beard guy). Some political stuff going on to make Elbaf an ally and grant protection but in reality the Navy is after something else, you guess it.
What is behind the relationship between Elbaf and the Worldgovernment? Why are giant so valueable to the Higher up humans? Why are they important for Vegapunk? Who else is a suspected character in this plotbuildup? Linlin! Where can we tie in Lola, Chiffon and Bege? Elbaf! Where could Kaido's ancestors come from? Elbaf! Who could know about God Valley? Raftel? Giants! And who wants to become pirate king and is ready to sacrifice his companions? Blackbeard! And who will sacrifice his fellow Yonko allies? Blackbeard! xD

So all in all I think that Big Mom and Kaido will be chased out of Wano due to uncalculable circumstances (navy for example) and they will add up with Blackbeard to attack Shanks and the Navy on Elbaf, to recruit Loki (if he is the evil brother) to the New Rocks and head straight to Raftel to obtain the One Piece and start the biggest war there.

Teach will sacrifice Kaido, Big Mom will turn over, Big Mom will find her last hour on Elbaf, BB obtains Kaidos fruit, becomming this big phillippine mythological black earthquake dragon. Revos, SHPs, Navy will all set sails to follow the New Rocks on Raftel, Blackberd will become Pirate King, Luffy will fight him defeat him, become PK and make the Navy retreat.

Boom, that's why Elbaf.

 

[Captain Khan]

I believe Wano will be just a skirmish, and it will be the arc where Luffy will reach the Yonko level, but he won't reach the Rocks alliance level with his alliance right now. Luffy is far away from shaking the world like Big Mom and Kaido would, like Rocks could.

Yes I think Wano will result in a big chase.

Nice to hear that I am not the only one thinking that . BB got two DFs yet his bounty was less than half that of Kaido . By the end of Wano arc , Luffy would be ,as you said , be a true Yonko level and BB would do something in the Shichibukai war to gain more notoriety .
It would like Luffy was chasing BB lol

What the real essence about the Wano arc will be, is the essence revealed on Wano kuni, opening borders, Poneglyph information, AK information, more about inherited wills (Oden/Roger/Ancient Kingdom/Toki), that will all result and build up to the final of the arc or even the next arc.

I concur . Maybe we see some of the Shichibukai War getting dragged into Wano . Moria is the key here . He certainly has a past with Wano and BB may want to exploit that .

Phase 1 remaining:
The raid complot and the Wano resolution phase during the Fire Festival.
Here we will resolve all the Shogun, Hiyori, Kyoshiro, Oden stuff while starting the brawls against the Yonko alliance. We will directly have fodder/headliner fights and the highlight of the Numbers. Nekomamushi comes. Uncover more giant stuff and go voer to the second phase.

By the end of Act 3 , the Big Mom-Kaido alliance will learn of the Shichibukai War and will get into it . Kaido will leave Wano under Orochi and maybe King or Queen . And as such SHP-Law-Momo alliance will have better chance and thereby win .

Phase 2 remaining:
The world involvement and the build up to the follow up.
Here we will resolve all open Wano plotlines and thematized topics like Vegapunk, the Seastone trading, Rogers egg, Ace, Luffy's rise to equality with Yonkos. Making Wano his turf. Jinbei/Marco involvement. Short Navy involvement, short Rocks heir invovlement with BB/Shanks.

Next would be The post Wano arc where we finally uncover the final Reverie informations (about Sabo and Vivi), where the Rocks will be reformed (so Big Mom and Kaido expand, and maybe join up with Blackbeard).

Epilogue of the Big War . BB recruits some of the Shichibukai other Morai ofcourse,who is either a prisoner or already with him. Revolutionary Army does something . We see new pacifista doing their thing and defeating Shichibukai . We see four way war brimming into with BB ,Marines,Rev Army and BigMom-Kaido alliance as participants .
Shanks either meets with Dragon or Mihawk or goes to Elbaf or remains incognito LOL

And I think the final step will be resolving Shanks before the final war.

Most likely as you said Elbaf is Shanks' turf like Fishman Island is Luffy's . Well i think Kaido will chase Luffy to Elbaf and Big Mom would go back to Tottoland ( maybe BB goes for it with his new recruits ) . And if Oda wishes to give BB a 3rd DF , he would get rid of Kaido either in Elbaf or in between . But that theory has been around for ages and Oda said this and the coming arcs will totally surprise us .
One of the Road Poneglyphs is likely there

 

[Rej]

Nice to hear that I am not the only one thinking that . BB got two DFs yet his bounty was less than half that of Kaido . By the end of Wano arc , Luffy would be ,as you said , be a true Yonko level and BB would do something in the Shichibukai war to gain more notoriety .
It would like Luffy was chasing BB lol

I concur . Maybe we see some of the Shichibukai War getting dragged into Wano . Moria is the key here . He certainly has a past with Wano and BB may want to exploit that .

By the end of Act 3 , the Big Mom-Kaido alliance will learn of the Shichibukai War and will get into it . Kaido will leave Wano under Orochi and maybe King or Queen . And as such SHP-Law-Momo alliance will have better chance and thereby win .


Epilogue of the Big War . BB recruits some of the Shichibukai other Morai ofcourse,who is either a prisoner or already with him. Revolutionary Army does something . We see new pacifista doing their thing and defeating Shichibukai . We see four way war brimming into with BB ,Marines,Rev Army and BigMom-Kaido alliance as participants .
Shanks either meets with Dragon or Mihawk or goes to Elbaf or remains incognito LOL

Most likely as you said Elbaf is Shanks' turf like Fishman Island is Luffy's . Well i think Kaido will chase Luffy to Elbaf and Big Mom would go back to Tottoland ( maybe BB goes for it with his new recruits ) . And if Oda wishes to give BB a 3rd DF , he would get rid of Kaido either in Elbaf or in between . But that theory has been around for ages and Oda said this and the coming arcs will totally surprise us .
One of the Road Poneglyphs is likely there

Oh so you want the SHPs to go ahead and the others follow up? I did not lock my opinion about the chases, but I feel like Kaido/Big Mom and aswell Blackbeard are planning ahead, they will lead the front basically. What I feel will be that SHPs will chase after Blackbeard who has gained the lead. And the navy will chase after Rocks and SHP alliance too. I rly bet my money on there being a marine base on Elbaf and that the admirals wil prepare their forces there. I mean Shanks being allowed to meet the Gorosei? Shanks is negotiating and if Elbaf is his territory and if Elbaf will be navy turf then Shanks surely has all rights to negotiate with the Gorosei, especially when Shanks has ties to either Imu or Rocks and gained his respect that way.

And yeah I think the Shichibukai will be filled in one after another, I have a vague feeling that the Grand Fleet will rescue Buggy and Buggy tries to lead/overwhelm the Grand Fleet but will fail and just stick alongside xd would be some symbolical fun referencing Buggy's persona in Impel Down. xD I love building MIhawk up on Wano but if Shanks and Elbaf arc is a thing then I see MIhawk more in that league there. Most Shichibukai moving parallel to SHP/Rocks movement after Wano.

 

[Captain Khan]

Oh so you want the SHPs to go ahead and the others follow up? I did not lock my opinion about the chases, but I feel like Kaido/Big Mom and aswell Blackbeard are planning ahead, they will lead the front basically. What I feel will be that SHPs will chase after Blackbeard who has gained the lead. And the navy will chase after Rocks and SHP alliance too. I rly bet my money on there being a marine base on Elbaf and that the admirals wil prepare their forces there. I mean Shanks being allowed to meet the Gorosei? Shanks is negotiating and if Elbaf is his territory and if Elbaf will be navy turf then Shanks surely has all rights to negotiate with the Gorosei, especially when Shanks has ties to either Imu or Rocks and gained his respect that way.

And yeah I think the Shichibukai will be filled in one after another, I have a vague feeling that the Grand Fleet will rescue Buggy and Buggy tries to lead/overwhelm the Grand Fleet but will fail and just stick alongside xd would be some symbolical fun referencing Buggy's persona in Impel Down. xD I love building MIhawk up on Wano but if Shanks and Elbaf arc is a thing then I see MIhawk more in that league there. Most Shichibukai moving parallel to SHP/Rocks movement after Wano.

The SHP have only one ship so they have better mobility so I think they will have better chances to slip through . And this has happened in almost every arc. For the time being ,SHP having no interest in Shichibukai War will continue forward .

But for the race for Raftel maybe different with BB getting the lead sometime when SHP gets bogged down somewhere (the recent incident concerning Alabasta or maybe the prediction regarding Fishman Island ) . Until Elbaf i think SHP will have the upper hand in Road Poneglyph gathering , i don't know how BB will gather the Zou's poneglyph .
I earlier thought Fujitora would chase him down . Now I think Kaido will chase him . Think of a Dragon chasing from like one end of the New World to Elbaf . The panels would be awesome . Of course this is not something set in stone . Kaido may fall before and BB gets the fruit or that He does something entirely different . He is a true chaos . No one expected Kaido to appear so soon In the Wano arc neither did one thought he would go after the Supernovas back in Chapter 790ish.

I think Hajurdin will be the one to rescue Buggy and let him into the Grand Fleet . The Grand Fleet is to cause a major incident . The last time Oda did something was when BB and Ace collided , the narration said a similar thing to that what the Grand Fleet is said to do .
So that remains to be seen . Bartholomew already claimed one of RHP islands . Maybe they will invade Marine Bases lol

We don't truly know Mihawk's affiliation . Siding with Shanks is a bit too obvious . So maybe he will have his own storyline . Who knows what happens , like who among Marines is going after him . What will be the result of it and how will it affect others .
I think Marines will only send some nobody after him for show ,not risking any of their major names . But who knows what's on GODA's mind

 

[Rej]

The SHP have only one ship so they have better mobility so I think they will have better chances to slip through . And this has happened in almost every arc. For the time being ,SHP having no interest in Shichibukai War will continue forward .

But for the race for Raftel maybe different with BB getting the lead sometime when SHP gets bogged down somewhere (the recent incident concerning Alabasta or maybe the prediction regarding Fishman Island ) . Until Elbaf i think SHP will have the upper hand in Road Poneglyph gathering , i don't know how BB will gather the Zou's poneglyph .
I earlier thought Fujitora would chase him down . Now I think Kaido will chase him . Think of a Dragon chasing from like one end of the New World to Elbaf . The panels would be awesome . Of course this is not something set in stone . Kaido may fall before and BB gets the fruit or that He does something entirely different . He is a true chaos . No one expected Kaido to appear so soon In the Wano arc neither did one thought he would go after the Supernovas back in Chapter 790ish.

I think Hajurdin will be the one to rescue Buggy and let him into the Grand Fleet . The Grand Fleet is to cause a major incident . The last time Oda did something was when BB and Ace collided , the narration said a similar thing to that what the Grand Fleet is said to do .
So that remains to be seen . Bartholomew already claimed one of RHP islands . Maybe they will invade Marine Bases lol

We don't truly know Mihawk's affiliation . Siding with Shanks is a bit too obvious . So maybe he will have his own storyline . Who knows what happens , like who among Marines is going after him . What will be the result of it and how will it affect others .
I think Marines will only send some nobody after him for show ,not risking any of their major names . But who knows what's on GODA's mind

Oh, my man, the ship argument is quite good, but we know that he Sunny and generally the SHPs will face damage, and as you said the next big thing will be the Reverie reveals around Sabo and Alabasta and this can either be a boost or kick the SHPs off their route. I am rly interested how this will turn out, but I think this is all build up to SHPs reuniting with Vivi somewhere in the new world and Revolutionaries might also meet up with the SHPs. Could be a good way to set up the final moves in the fight for the throne, before Elbaf during Elbaf or after Elbaf.

What's intriguing is that Shanks mentioned he will meet Luffy soon, but we never had Dragon mentioning something like that, so the stakes are high for us have Shanks involved next and Dragon being a part of the World Building until later.

But I also love the idea of Kaido going wild in the New World, the New World is symbolically a prison/trap as the only legit exit is also it's legit entrance

I mean we are totally offtopic but idc. It was nice. I rly can't think about Shichibukai alignments...I am a fan of them splitting up, like one sticking with BB, one with Shanks, one with Luffy. But in the end they are important to fight and hold off the navy.
It would be quite symbolical when the Shichibukai will hold back the navy, because they basically worked for the navy to hold back the Yonko :catainu:

All in all, the "chase saga" or "race saga" or whatever Oda will name it will happen next

 

[Captain Khan]

What's intriguing is that Shanks mentioned he will meet Luffy soon, but we never had Dragon mentioning something like that, so the stakes are high for us have Shanks involved next and Dragon being a part of the World Building until later.

Shanks is like a wildcard Oda is holding . Boom I use this to scramble everything(him meeting with Gorosei) and tie up the aftereffects(like Marineford War) LOL . But whatever I think I cannot truly sense his role .

It would be quite symbolical when the Shichibukai will hold back the navy, because they basically worked for the navy to hold back the Yonko

That's so appeared when Akainu and Fujitora were having the conversation .

I mean we are totally offtopic but idc It was nice.

I know but now everything is collating together we cannot discuss one without the other . But let's do not make life hard for the mods LOL
Maybe make a meta thread like "What will be the fallout of Wano and Shichibukai War " , I am not good at nomenclature

All in all, the "chase saga" or "race saga" or whatever Oda will name it will happen next

I am hoping for Oda giving us a spin and making something different all together . He has a wild imagination

 

[Rej]

Shanks is like a wildcard Oda is holding . Boom I use this to scramble everything(him meeting with Gorosei) and tie up the aftereffects(like Marineford War) LOL . But whatever I think I cannot truly sense his role .

That's so appeared when Akainu and Fujitora were having the conversation .

I know but now everything is collating together we cannot discuss one without the other . But let's do not make life hard for the mods LOL
Maybe make a meta thread like "What will be the fallout of Wano and Shichibukai War " , I am not good at nomenclature

I am hoping for Oda giving us a spin and making something different all together . He has a wild imagination

yeah Oda is indeed wild, I was too much wrong with my assumptions and ideas xD
Shanks my man shaking up the game, do you like Shanks Antagonist theories? xd Yeah a "New World" thread should be opened.

 

[Captain Khan]

yeah Oda is indeed wild, I was too much wrong with my assumptions and ideas xD
Shanks my man shaking up the game, do you like Shanks Antagonist theories? xd Yeah a "New World" thread should be opened.

I don't think Oda will go to that extent but he will surely make him more human,i.e, do some bad shit .