Characters and Groups Zoro's Ryuma plot

[Rej]

Replace Tenguyama with Kitetsu

I think Kitetsu created the swords for Zoros ancestors. This could be the reason why Zoro can feel the curse without being effected and most likely end up being the one breaking the curse.

But was Kitetsu a friend or an enemy of Zoros ancestors?!? Did he create the weapon to curse Zoros Ancestors or tomcurse the enemies of Zoros Ancestors? Was the curse created on purpose or not?

And how is "Mr Ghandi Gorosei" involved in the story. He seems to be the owner of "Shodai Kitetsu", but also uneffected by the curse.

I am talking not bout far ancestors, I talk about Oden times (pre Oden times), and Tengu is heck of an oldie, so before Zoros parents moved to the East Blue (speculative), we can expect them to have some relationship with Hitetsu. But I can't imagine reasons for why the curse should exist. I could put back my Imu and Dragon Clan tinfoils and connect that into the whole mix. Lul

 

[Nessos]

I am talking not bout far ancestors, I talk about Oden times (pre Oden times), and Tengu is heck of an oldie, so before Zoros parents moved to the East Blue (speculative), we can expect them to have some relationship with Hitetsu. But I can't imagine reasons for why the curse should exist. I could put back my Imu and Dragon Clan tinfoils and connect that into the whole mix. Lul

Kitetsu who created the cursed swords was Tenguyamas ancestor. And Tenguyama is waiting for someone. Most likely the one breaking the curse.


We know Zoro can feel the curse and is uneffected by it. So Zoro most likely the man Tanguyama is waiting for.


So Kitetsu had some connections to Zoros Ancestors.

 

[Rej]

Kitetsu who created the cursed swords was Tenguyamas ancestor. And Tenguyama is waiting for someone. Most likely the one breaking the curse.


We know Zoro can feel the curse and is uneffected by it. So Zoro most likely the man Tanguyama is waiting for.


So Kitetsu had some connections to Zoros Ancestors.

That's what I tried to say, so Hitetsu when he was younger he probably knew Zoro's parents/grandparents if we follow that theory, and that's what I like about the theory. We maybe never get to meet Zoro's parents, but we will always have this strong lore around Zoro, that would fit the Wano arc at best and give a good contrast to what happened in WCI with Sanji and Germa66

 

[Nessos]

That's what I tried to say, so Hitetsu when he was younger he probably knew Zoro's parents/grandparents if we follow that theory, and that's what I like about the theory. We maybe never get to meet Zoro's parents, but we will always have this strong lore around Zoro, that would fit the Wano arc at best and give a good contrast to what happened in WCI with Sanji and Germa66

Here is a point we disagree with each other.
In my opinion it wouldn't fit with the bloodrelated curse plot.

I mean if Hitetsu knew Zoros Patents and was a friend of them why didn't he give nidai Kitetsu to Zoros father or Mother to break the curse.

 

[Rej]

Here is a point we disagree with each other.
In my opinion it wouldn't fit with the bloodrelated curse plot.

I mean if Hitetsu knew Zoros Patents and was a friend of them why didn't he give nidai Kitetsu to Zoros father or Mother to break the curse.

Because they gave the Nidai Kitetsu to Hitetsu and Hitetsu maybe is supposed to give it to Zoro.

 

[Nessos]

Because they gave the Nidai Kitetsu to Hitetsu and Hitetsu maybe is supposed to give it to Zoro.

Like Kitetsu gave the cursed swords to Zoro ancestors, Zoros ancestor hand them down from geberation to generation (Shodai and Sandai got lost somehwere). Then Zoros Patents gave the remaining Nidai to Hitetsu the ancestor of Kitetsu so that he can give it to Zoro?!?

That would be a strange plot.

 

[Rej]

Like Kitetsu gave the cursed swords to Zoro ancestors, Zoros ancestor hand them down from geberation to generation (Shodai and Sandai got lost somehwere). Then Zoros Patents gave the remaining Nidai to Hitetsu the ancestor of Kitetsu so that he can give it to Zoro?!?

That would be a strange plot.

Why? There was a strong bond between the Kitetsu family and Zoro's family probably, maybe they all were Daimyo families under one Shogun.
The Kitetsu blades were given to Zoro's family to be take care of:
The Sandai Kitetsu got lost in the East Blue when Zoros family/ancestors left Wano.
The Nidai Kitetsu got passed down to Hitetsu to be taken care off and be given back to the heirs.
The Shodai Kitetsu got taken away from the family of Zoro, maybe from Gandhi Gorosei for whatever reasons, or by Imu (who then gave it to Gandhi)

 

[Nessos]

Why? There was a strong bond between the Kitetsu family and Zoro's family probably, maybe they all were Daimyo families under one Shogun.
The Kitetsu blades were given to Zoro's family to be take care of:
The Sandai Kitetsu got lost in the East Blue when Zoros family/ancestors left Wano.
The Nidai Kitetsu got passed down to Hitetsu to be taken care off and be given back to the heirs.
The Shodai Kitetsu got taken away from the family of Zoro, maybe from Gandhi Gorosei for whatever reasons, or by Imu (who then gave it to Gandhi)

I thought about sth. like Kitetsu was ordered to create swords for Zoros ancestors.
But then something happened and he ended up giving the swords to others. And then swords getting cursed ruining his familiy.

Hitetsu now searching not only for the cursed blades, but also for Zoro, the descendant of Zoros ancestor. Trying to break the curse. But so far only managed to find Nidai Kitetsu.

 

[Dragomir]

Why? There was a strong bond between the Kitetsu family and Zoro's family probably, maybe they all were Daimyo families under one Shogun.
The Kitetsu blades were given to Zoro's family to be take care of:
The Sandai Kitetsu got lost in the East Blue when Zoros family/ancestors left Wano.
The Nidai Kitetsu got passed down to Hitetsu to be taken care off and be given back to the heirs.
The Shodai Kitetsu got taken away from the family of Zoro, maybe from Gandhi Gorosei for whatever reasons, or by Imu (who then gave it to Gandhi)

Yo, this is actually pretty legit and makes a lot of sense. I always thought Zoro's interest for Nidai Kitestu was just his general love for swords but reading this now makes me realize it goes deeper than that. He's interested cause it owned by his family! But now there's a problem. What is Zoro going to do with these swords as they'd be automatically his? Can't use all of them as he only has sword holsters. Wado Ichimonji isn't going anyway so only 2 spots left. He's likely to get Enma so it makes only one spot left. Shisui could stay or go depending on what he does with it. So Nidai and Shodai could not be used at all(I strongly believe Sandai will be replaced by either Enma or Nidai). Too many swords for one guy.
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These are pretty much the only possible scenarios I can see going down. Wado, Nidai, and Enma. Wado, Nidai, and Shisui. Wado, Shisui, and Enma. Nidai will probably be replaced by Shodai later on in the story but he still ends up with 2 swords over(Sandai, and Nidai). I could see him giving one to Brook and having Hitetsu keep the remaining one to save it.

 

[Rej]

I thought about sth. like Kitetsu was ordered to create swords for Zoros ancestors.
But then something happened and he ended up giving the swords to others. And then swords getting cursed ruining his familiy.

Hitetsu now searching not only for the cursed blades, but also for Zoro, the descendant of Zoros ancestor. Trying to break the curse. But so far only managed to find Nidai Kitetsu.

Also possible, from a standpoint of where all 3 swords were kept afe at a place for the Zoro bloodline, but due to circumstances this swords got split. The main circumstance is Kaidos purge on Wano and maybe there is more to it like the 20 kingdoms (World Government) chasing the remains of the ancient kingdom. That's how Gandhi came into the possession of Shodai Kitetsu assumingly.

Yo, this is actually pretty legit and makes a lot of sense. I always thought Zoro's interest for Nidai Kitestu was just his general love for swords but reading this now makes me realize it goes deeper than that. He's interested cause it owned by his family! But now there's a problem. What is Zoro going to do with these swords as they'd be automatically his? Can't use all of them as he only has sword holsters. Wado Ichimonji isn't going anyway so only 2 spots left. He's likely to get Enma so it makes only one spot left. Shisui could stay or go depending on what he does with it. So Nidai and Shodai could not be used at all(I strongly believe Sandai will be replaced by either Enma or Nidai). Too many swords for one guy.
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This is pretty much the only possible scenarios I can see going down. Wado, Nidai, and Enma. Wado, Nidai, and Shisui. Wado, Shisui, and Enma. Nidai will probably be replaced by Shodai later on in the story but he still ends up with 2 swords over(Sandai, and Nidai). I could see him giving one to Brook and having Hitetsu keep the remaining one to save it.

Thanks man, I rly love the Meito plotlines and I will try to study it more!
I think the final goal for Zoro will be to obtain the Shodai Kitetsu from Gandhi. I thought about him giving Shusui back to Wano and keep Enma as temporary power up similair to how Luffy had Nightmare Luffy on TB. Zoro will then give Enma back so it can become Momo's Sword in future.
Zoro will obtain the Nidai Kitetsu then. And he will have Sandai and Nidai Kitetsu and the sword from Kuina, the Wado Ichimonji.
I think Zoro will strenghten this sword and maybe use it against Gandhi until we find out how the World Government chased the people that left Wano. That's maybe how the RA were present at Koshiro's Dojo back then, they wanted to watch over the people fleeing from Wano because the World Government would ideally chase them to get informations.
So maybe indirectly Imu is the cause for Kuina's death and such. At one point Zoro has to let go and maybe sacrifice the Wado Ichimonji or it will get broken to create more tension, so Zoro can really obtain the Shodai Kitetsu from Gandhi and have 3 swords to fight Imu/Mihawk/Shiryu whatever later on.
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I still think that the 12 swords tie back to the Void Century events, a secret clan, maybe being backed up by Wano as closest alliance, back when Wano was open. And Imu originated from this clan, he betrayed everyone, took the main source of their power with him and so he managed to rule the world and form it as he pleased. That's why I think that Imu posseses one of the Supremer grade swords. And this would make him to an archenemy of Luffy and Zoro and could justify a Luffy + Zoro matchup vs Imu.

 

[Nessos]

Another point trying to solve Zoros connection to Wano is the Shimotsuki clan.

The Shimotsuki clan ruled over Ringo and Hakumai.

Shimotsuki Yasui was the Daymo of Hakumai and Shimotsuki Ushimaru the Daymo of Ringo.

In SBS 92 it was told a boat from Wano reached EB a few decades age. Its almost clear that this was Koshiro.
The question is how is Koshiro connected to the Shimotsuki clan. The Village in EB He lives is called Shimotsuki vlage that can't be coincidence.

In Yasui flashback we also someone with the same Kimino as Koshirk(maybe even Koshiro himself) as one of the Hakumai Harbour guards.

For the question right now is, is Koshiro part of Shimotsuki family or could it be that He was send away together with the son of Shimotsuki Ushimaru to protect him?
(Which would then end up being Zoro.)

Started to talk about this with @Best Generation in an OJ PM. He reminded me that Yasui is from Shimotsuki clan.
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Also possible, from a standpoint of where all 3 swords were kept afe at a place for the Zoro bloodline, but due to circumstances this swords got split. The main circumstance is Kaidos purge on Wano

Here I would say the Kitetsu blade plot happened a long time before Kaidou.
I mean Hitetsu talked about his ancestor and the curse is well known in the world.

 

[Rej]

Another point trying to solve Zoros connection to Wano is the Shimotsuki clan.

The Shimotsuki clan ruled over Ringo and Hakumai.

Shimotsuki Yasui was the Daymo of Hakumai and Shimotsuki Ushimaru the Daymo of Ringo.

In SBS 92 it was told a boat from Wano reached EB a few decades age. Its almost clear that this was Koshiro.
The question is how is Koshiro connected to the Shimotsuki clan. The Village in EB He lives is called Shimotsuki vlage that can't be coincidence.

In Yasui flashback we also someone with the same Kimino as Koshirk(maybe even Koshiro himself) as one of the Hakumai Harbour guards.

For the question right now is, is Koshiro part of Shimotsuki family or could it be that He was send away together with the son of Shimotsuki Ushimaru to protect him?
(Which would then end up being Zoro.)

One of both either. I think it belongs to the Zoro ancestors build up. Shimotsuki might be a big clan, several smaller families all merged together, ruling over 2 regions or even more back then, maybe a Shimotsuki became a former Shogun at one point.
For this we can just wait for more clues, but yeah I believe the people the were fleeing from Wano were fleeing (or capable to flee) because the Shimotsuki's let it happen. So they were building a small village honoring the name of the Shimotsuki clan. It is possible that Koshiro and Zoro's parents were members of this clan.
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Here I would say the Kitetsu blade plot happened a long time before Kaidou.
I mean Hitetsu talked about his ancestor and the curse is well known in the world.

So there were 2 escapes from Wano, one pre-Toki arrival and one during Toki arrival. I never excluded this possibility you might be right. But then the information about the swords has been passed down over centuries probably (to Hitetsu). If we follow the theory of Wano closing after/during the "Void War" and Imu/World Government chasing/hunting Wano refugees. (I still think this is strongly hinted through the Revolutionary presence during the Shimotsuki refugee plot)
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So the Wado Ichimonji could really be a heirloom to the Shimotsuki family.
Seeing this from that perspective Kuina and Zoro were bound to be together as heirs of the Shimotsuki clan. But it wouldn't count as incest since the Shimotsuki clan is a bond of multiple families and bloodlines which would make Kuina and Zoro legit as a symbolic couple representing the power of the Shimotsuki clan, but it never happened because of whatever happened to Kuina (I bet Imu still knows it).
That's why Koshiro was passing down Kuinas sword to Zoro without thinking bigtimes about it, again this links to Koshiro KNOWING who Zoros parents were. Again this massively confirms that Zoro has Wano origins.

 

[Kyo]

Zoro gonna take enma he wanted to take nidai from luffy to

 

[Saikō no Kenshi]

Hello guys, it’s me Saikō no Kenshi from OJ

 

[Rej]

Hello guys, it’s me Saikō no Kenshi from OJ

Welcome brudda :3

 

[Lemonade]

Another point trying to solve Zoros connection to Wano is the Shimotsuki clan.

The Shimotsuki clan ruled over Ringo and Hakumai.

Shimotsuki Yasui was the Daymo of Hakumai and Shimotsuki Ushimaru the Daymo of Ringo.

In SBS 92 it was told a boat from Wano reached EB a few decades age. Its almost clear that this was Koshiro.
The question is how is Koshiro connected to the Shimotsuki clan. The Village in EB He lives is called Shimotsuki vlage that can't be coincidence.

In Yasui flashback we also someone with the same Kimino as Koshirk(maybe even Koshiro himself) as one of the Hakumai Harbour guards.

For the question right now is, is Koshiro part of Shimotsuki family or could it be that He was send away together with the son of Shimotsuki Ushimaru to protect him?
(Which would then end up being Zoro.)

Started to talk about this with @Best Generation in an OJ PM. He reminded me that Yasui is from Shimotsuki clan.
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Here I would say the Kitetsu blade plot happened a long time before Kaidou.
I mean Hitetsu talked about his ancestor and the curse is well known in the world.

This is a good theory. Zoro is definitely connected to the Shimotsuki family in some way (he could even be part of them). It's becoming increasingly clear that Zoro is from Wano but something happened that could eventually be explained through flashbacks.

I'm curious to see more of Onimaru's interactions with Zoro. Yeah they fought a few times but I'm wondering if Onimaru will see Ushimaru in Zoro?

 

[Desolate Smaug]

It was not Ryuma it was Brooks shadow.

Spoiler

Brooks Shadow talked about Ryuma in 3rd person.

And He felt ashamed that He lost in that body.

I would also bet that Zoros Origins belong to Ringo. Which will most likely end up by Zoro accepting the traditions of Ringo

and fullfil Ryumas last wish and give back Shusui.


i really hope Enma (God of Hell) will become Zoros first supreme grade blade. It would totally fit his theme.
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I would say a combination of all

Nah the way Oda wrote the Zoro vs Ryuma fight at the end it seemed like Ryuuma spirit broke through and talked directy to Zoro before bequething the sword to him.

Anyways I think it's almost guaranteed Enma is a first-class sword (one of the 12). That's to be expected of the heirloom of the ruling family of wano. Though that in itself is a problem. It doesn't seem right for Zoro to take up Kozuki's family heirloom. I don't know how I feel about it, to be honest.

 

[Arthand]

Damn why do i have so many problems with signature it always says spam

 

[Shanks Joestar]

A part of small hints like Shimotsuki village and the Word (i dont Remember now) that Momo learned from Zoro, the biggest hints of Zoro and Ryuma connection Is that they are basically twins!
And now that we know that Monster Ryuma Is Canon to One Piece Is not even stretched anymore.

 

[Desolate Smaug]

A part of small hints like Shimotsuki village and the Word (i dont Remember now) that Momo learned from Zoro, the biggest hints of Zoro and Ryuma connection Is that they are basically twins!
And now that we know that Monster Ryuma Is Canon to One Piece Is not even stretched anymore.

It's possible they could have a connection or Zoro simply learned that word from his teacher who looks like a wano samurai. His name and the stuff he taught Zoro about breath of all things all points to him being from Wano.