[FIN] Traditional Mafia The Gang Plays Mafia [Mafia Championship Practice]

[Michelle]

I might have missed why I am scum to u.. Bit whatever case u will try to put on the table, the way u started it was smog.

did you ever read the thread?

 

[Gambit]

did you ever read the thread?

Yeah. I might have missed it.

 

[Dragomir]

It's not simple. Is like you closed your eyes and picked at random

How is that the case? Ever since coming into this DP, I have expressed a scum read on you. I have followed through with that read, questioned you, and then made a case. What randomness do you possibly see that I don't?

tunneling means also to not accept any reason to change your ideas and keep a vote just because you are stubborn.

You're right, now tell me, am I doing any of these things? Think about it real hard now and be honest.

see, this is your problem. You in fact are fighting with Beky not me.

Incorrect. I am fighting with everyone. I am fighting with anyone that wants to accuse my reasons of being shallow; I am fighting with anyone that wants to say I'm inconsistent when I am clearly not; I am fighting with anyone that wants to make a ludicrous statement against my own posts.

Let me be clear. My reasons are not shallow, I am not being inconsistent, I have not changed my meta in response to being called out(was never called out in the first place), and I am not mindlessly tunneling you. It is fine for you to believe otherwise but please understand that I will fight you to the death trying to prove you wrong.

Tell me Michelle, what do you think of your guardian angel Beky over here? Good or bad?

@Gambit my man, you haven't done squat this phase. You have any reads? Anybody you wanna lynch?

 

[Shottie]

I should probably take a nap so I'm not sleeping when Stray Cat comes back. (and to keep some posts available)

 

[Dragomir]

1. I see now, maybe my game involvement was lower compared with others but idk how this makes me suspect. Let's take Gambit as example. Why is he villager posting like he posted and me wolf in the same perspective,?
2. looks like my language barrier strikes again, and we have different styles and you really didn't catch my idea in that post. At best you can lynch me for not expressing well my thoughts in english but i doubt a policy lynch will make me learn better.

I wish to understand your read on Beky, you posted something interesting about his day 2 and i didn't really play so much with him to know his scum range.

1. Coasting is widely regarded to be a scumtell. It allows the player to stay off the radar without making pushes, being actively engaged in the thread, and not get your hands dirty. It's a way for scum to stay in their comfort zone and not get pressed. Coasting scum can become a problem when town doesn't pay attention to them.

Now, a player's gameplay could just be coasting. Coasting may be NAI for some players. I have no idea if it's that's the case for you. You always striked me as more of a power player but you could very well be naturally a coaster.

About Gambit, his interaction with Stray Cat D1 reads genuine and I can deeply connect with it. He was questioning SC for things that didn't make any sense, at least to him, SC would attack him back and keep finding ways to paint him as scum(all this is very similar to Stray's town meta btw). After having to explain himself multiple times to a person who wasn't having it, he got fed up and ignored her. That's the type of shit I would do. In that progression, you can clearly see how it leads to a frustrated townie.

I'm not very knowledgeable about Beky's own playstyle as I rarely pay attention to him in games but I want you to iso him for me. Tell me what you think. I can hardly see a town in him.

 

[Shottie]

Ok wait, @Dragomir i have a question for you.
(Multiple choice pick the best answer)

___________ I'm scum.
A) yes
B) no
C) maybe
D) -leave blank-

 

[Michelle]

I will Iso Beky and Gambit.

Is useless ti continue the discussion over playstyle, coasting and your read on me because to answer on phone at a wall is tiresome and looks not necessary to defend myself instead scumhunting. My playtime is limited.

 

[Dragomir]

Ok wait, @Dragomir i have a question for you.
(Multiple choice pick the best answer)

___________ I'm scum.
A) yes
B) no
C) maybe
D) -leave blank-

Trick question. No matter what you pick, you will end up saying "I'm scum" regardless.

So I choose E) abstain.

 

[Michelle]

the above was for @Dragomir

 

[Shottie]

"I'm scum"

And I don't even have to edit your post.

 

[Michelle]

Beky said:
This rubs me the wrong way

Beky said:
I don't think Michelle is fluffing to fluff but more so to get things rolling. I don't see anything non ordinary

perhaps a slight townread on becky. this is probably too ridicilous to come from scum

Starting with this, Beky's first take on a post i had was my post was bad but after he took the meta related thing to town read me.
Later in post #62 Beky explains his thougts in a convincing way. We played at MU recently and also here a game and from these recent games he has the most recent meta for me from all players except Ted and Rej. For this, even if his read on me may be taken as TMI it can also be a normal read meta based.

I made an Iso of Beky and Gambit together, they have like 200 posts, it will take some time.
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And I don't even have to edit your post.

nope but you took that out of context :|

 

[Shottie]

nope but you took that out of context :|

Certainly, only because he thought he was being smart by choosing an answer not available

 

[Michelle]

Post counts
(no one posted since i started this)

player	total	day 1	day 2 until now
Cat	284	192	92
Ted	208	145	63
Drago	201	62	139
Oreki	167	66	101
Ona	147	147	sample of villager posting
Beky	146	99	47
Law	126	33	93
Poison/Waindo	9/114	9/31	83
Michelle	104	71	33
Rej	82	75	7
Joby/Shottie​	9/80	9/15	65
Gambit	62	57	5
Nessos/Okosan​	49/18	49	18
Samael​	28	15	13

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I want to see more from @Rej, please tell me where is your head at.

 

[Beky]

Beky, where did you get this idea that Michelle would be an easy person to push? Michelle, the person who was universally town read last phase. How does that make you go "yep, scum will push for her cause she's easy".

Universal town read?
Dude please dont make me laugh.

 

[Beky]

I am busy atm but i woll have a break in an hour so see you then

 

[Stray Cat]

How does discrediting people who scum read him relate to me? Explain that. Or this is an early defense for yourself for keeping a vote on him?

Yeah. I also wonder why.. Why do you think Ona was the best option? People were reading him as town and yet mafia went for him. Interesting. What's more interesting is their guts to do the killing without even thinking that they would've passed a protected townie. That's an ass breaker.

Lol

Defense for what? That was an analysis. And had you actually read the the full posts regarding that you would know how that relates to you. Honestly baffling how you vote for me without explanation and cherry pick a post to accuse me again of what, exactly? And don't even bother to read, apparently. Sorry, but this isn't a good look on you.
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1. Coasting is widely regarded to be a scumtell. It allows the player to stay off the radar without making pushes, being actively engaged in the thread, and not get your hands dirty. It's a way for scum to stay in their comfort zone and not get pressed. Coasting scum can become a problem when town doesn't pay attention to them.

Now, a player's gameplay could just be coasting. Coasting may be NAI for some players. I have no idea if it's that's the case for you. You always striked me as more of a power player but you could very well be naturally a coaster.

About Gambit, his interaction with Stray Cat D1 reads genuine and I can deeply connect with it. He was questioning SC for things that didn't make any sense, at least to him, SC would attack him back and keep finding ways to paint him as scum(all this is very similar to Stray's town meta btw). After having to explain himself multiple times to a person who wasn't having it, he got fed up and ignored her. That's the type of shit I would do. In that progression, you can clearly see how it leads to a frustrated townie.

I'm not very knowledgeable about Beky's own playstyle as I rarely pay attention to him in games but I want you to iso him for me. Tell me what you think. I can hardly see a town in him.

Yeah, but have you ever considered scum can be frustrated, too, and play the ignore card?

 

[Michelle]

For Gambit the post count looks really bad. Going through the ISO though.

Stray Cat said:

Onadaga: Quick to judge players, could be their experience, but also TMI.

wait. i understand where this one is coming from.. hmm. however, those are his initial impressions about the initial posts these players have.. don't you think assuming that he is somewhat TMI where you have gone judging us with your above post is such a contradictory element to be painted as villager?

with this kind of posting style Gambit can very easy hide himself as scum and I have the proof he did this in our previous game while he was also universally town read. My impression is he is beating around the bush, avoiding to express direct suspicion on Cat here.

Onadaga said:

i will agree that im starting to grow on her playstyle. then the next thought is to be cautious cuz im falling in the trap of townreading every player that posted, so we'll see

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Wednesday at 10:43 PM

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oh i think gambit is scum

how do i vote?

--------------- Post automatically merged: ​

Wednesday at 10:44 PM

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[v]Gambit[/v] [vote]Gambit[/vote]

then i am gonna say, that it's either you're not familiar with my way of speech or you simply derail yourself from your 6 or 7 so years of experience in reading people.. it's not always the experience but the manner in which you approach it. you told us that you approach the game to win, but with a fail read on someone holds you back from winning.. and yet it will you guys an information. so go on.

Just few in this game are familiar with Gambit's way of speech and certainly Ona couldn't be, as new player just registered, but Gambit is insinuating here that Ona doesn't know how to read people despite experience. Shade on a villager and self defense, looks like he avoids a real confrontation.

His interaction with Cat shows that he wants to present himself in the best light without risking anything.Pointing out Cat has inconsistencies in logic but not scum reading Cat he is loosing town's time and clogs the thread with an useless banter.

@Onadaga my friend, would you be too kind to expound which of my entrances allowed you to picture me as wolf? just curious

Buddying Ona, who flipped villager, to make himself looking good and to pocket him. He is way too interested to have a good image.

He did nothing to move the game forward, posting fluff and jokes, and finally pulling a wolf team with one flipped villager Juliet, one villa Michelle and a town read I have Dragomir.

juliet, drago and michelle.. day one wolves for me.. could change.. since i am a gurl now, those are all gut feels..

Yeah. So I threw a vote on her buddy..

Probs tomorrow.. Who knows. Maybe I die tonight..

Could that mean better?

this shenanigan with 'i die tonight' i've seend it too often from scum tbh

Vote stray cat

voting the toen read over the wolf team he posted.

How is this town behaviour?​

I think Gambit is scum like 90% for me now.

Back to square 1

Unvote
Vote lynch: Gambit
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About Beky i have to read more, I expect him to come back itt and play this day for real. He is concentrating on Drago very much this day but I don't really see a view for the entire game from him

​

Oreki said:

​

Who do you suspect?

Hard to say really. I sus Nessos but he left and Okosan wasnt really here. I sus Ted so i am following his every post so catch as many things as i can before throwing the cards, then there is question of people pushing on Michelle and Gambo. I feel like those 2 were easy pickings and somewhere in there there are scum who went on them. So ill need to check that

Then there is question of Odanagas death. I already explained he was killed by a scum he was close to getting. I read his final reads posted by michelle and i saw some potential pickings.

So far reading back several pages i am just not that interested in it, its basically just a lot of back and forth between 4 of you.

Day is still young and i am keeping my cards close to me.

being the bolded I see a player who dislikes to share his ideas. Not quite helpful for town imo but not wolfy per se.

In the posts below he reaches a read on Oreki similar with mine but with other logic:

Considering Oreki led a wagon on Juliet i doubt he would try to do the same if he was scum. I mean thats just ballsy thing to do and i doubt he can pull it off. No disrespect to Oreki but thats testing your luck before you are lynched

Think about it
If Oreki was scum and he miss lynched Juliet when leading a train - why on Earth would he try to do the same again this night? He already got a free pass for the day before, doing it AGAIN is just plain suicide

Oreki is just a townie that made a bad call and didnt let that influence his D2

Thats how i see it

I need more from Beky, he leans town but like I said, idk his scum range so well.
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also bbl @ me and AMA

 

[Gambit]

Defense for what? That was an analysis. And had you actually read the the full posts regarding that you would know how that relates to you. Honestly baffling how you vote for me without explanation and cherry pick a post to accuse me again of what, exactly? And don't even bother to read, apparently. Sorry, but this isn't a good look on you.
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Yeah, but have you ever considered scum can be frustrated, too, and play the ignore card?

No. You are overly defensive here darling.. And now that I went for your defensiveness, you just showed why I was right on how you pre-empt the situation.

For Gambit the post count looks really bad. Going through the ISO though.


with this kind of posting style Gambit can very easy hide himself as scum and I have the proof he did this in our previous game while he was also universally town read. My impression is he is beating around the bush, avoiding to express direct suspicion on Cat here.

Just few in this game are familiar with Gambit's way of speech and certainly Ona couldn't be, as new player just registered, but Gambit is insinuating here that Ona doesn't know how to read people despite experience. Shade on a villager and self defense, looks like he avoids a real confrontation.

His interaction with Cat shows that he wants to present himself in the best light without risking anything.Pointing out Cat has inconsistencies in logic but not scum reading Cat he is loosing town's time and clogs the thread with an useless banter.

Buddying Ona, who flipped villager, to make himself looking good and to pocket him. He is way too interested to have a good image.

He did nothing to move the game forward, posting fluff and jokes, and finally pulling a wolf team with one flipped villager Juliet, one villa Michelle and a town read I have Dragomir.



this shenanigan with 'i die tonight' i've seend it too often from scum tbh

voting the toen read over the wolf team he posted.
How is this town behaviour?

I think Gambit is scum like 90% for me now.

Back to square 1

Unvote
Vote lynch: Gambit
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About Beky i have to read more, I expect him to come back itt and play this day for real. He is concentrating on Drago very much this day but I don't really see a view for the entire game from him



being the bolded I see a player who dislikes to share his ideas. Not quite helpful for town imo but not wolfy per se.

In the posts below he reaches a read on Oreki similar with mine but with other logic:




I need more from Beky, he leans town but like I said, idk his scum range so well.
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also bbl @ me and AMA

You have presented fair impressions on my posts. However, ypu seem to ignore the valid things i mentioned.. Why?

 

[tedxtr]

Case :

I tried to follow Waindo's thought process. I noticed some thing was off with regards to his actions, specifically, Waindo expressed a scum read on Cat, but the actual substance of it looks a lot more like...pocketing / buddying rather than presenting any genuine concern for Stray's alignment.

Then, he came into the day making a full 180 that I could not comprehend. Pay attention, he had me as a town lean, Stray as a gut / paranoia scum lean, and now he completely discredits this progression / throws it out the trash for no reason. Nothing that Stray has posted at SoD could've changed Waindo's opinion on both her AND ME. What changed for the both of us? There's no progression, but rather he capitalised on the moment.

Now, he argues that the progression on Stray was exactly this : He faked EVERYTHING just to catch scum like me and Gambit.

Why is it a scum thing? Because this isn't a solid town progression. This type of explaining comes a lot more from scum than town, BECAUSE Waindo would not even think of reaction testing other people WHEN HE DOESN'T KNOW THAT STRAY IS A TOWN FOR SURE.

The paranoia he pretends to espouse with his early posting doesn't match his line of scum hunting. You don't use a slot that you have no read on in order to catch other people. As town, that isn't fruitful, because

a) You don't know whether Stray is town, so doing that will most likely make you seem like a complete buffoon. You need to have a town read on someone in order to even claim you were using them as bait to catch other scum.

b) You never have the guarantee that someone will react to it, and someone calling someone scum for something doesn't mean that your reaction test worked.

According to how insane b) is as Waindo claiming this was all a mastermind plan, this looks a lot more like covering of previous tracks in order to maintain a town read. Me and Gambit scum reading Stray Cat created this thought process. It's not the other way around.

Town doesn't think about reaction tests on slots that they know can be dangerous scum, and RESORT TO DISCERNING THEIR ALIGNMENT FIRST BEFORE EVEN CHOOSING TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS, WHICH WAINDO NEVER DID

This thought process was made after the fact and it's CONCLUSION BASED in order to avoid talking about his shift on reads, both on Stray and me.

Conclusion based reads come from scum that are afraid of being caught. Town have to undergo a clear way until reaching a conclusion. This is the exact opposite of it.
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Never removing my vote, and you should all wagon Waidon into oblivion.
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Think to yourselves, what town that has no idea of the content, didn't read anything, and decides to use Stray, a person that they are very paranoid about and they know their scum game, would claim they town read them in order to catch someone else.

That's almost never happening.

I just want to point out that Waindo admitted to having faked every single interaction / thing said to Stray on the basis "I was baiting scum like you and Gambo into scum reading stray"

And after we did, he removed his vote and faded into silence.

I'll let that rest.

@Stray Cat @Beky @Trafalgar Law @Okosan @Waindo @Dragomir @Shottie @Michelle @Samael @Oreki @Rej @Gambit

Y'all can't sleep on this.

Waindo, explain buddy.

 

[Stray Cat]

No. You are overly defensive here darling.. And now that I went for your defensiveness, you just showed why I was right on how you pre-empt the situation.

You have presented fair impressions on my posts. However, ypu seem to ignore the valid things i mentioned.. Why?

Pretty bold to throw shades at me at this point, I give you that.
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@Stray Cat @Beky @Trafalgar Law @Okosan @Waindo @Dragomir @Shottie @Michelle @Samael @Oreki @Rej @Gambit

Y'all can't sleep on this.

Waindo, explain buddy.

I'm not. But just like you are basing your point on Waindo knowing that I'm Town, you yourself are basing your case on knowing that I'm Town. Since without me being Town from both perspectives, yours and Wai's your point couldn't exist tbh. You guys seem like Townies to me that just share the same Town read.