[FIN] Traditional Mafia Double Dethy(Filler Round

[Hayumi]

I'm struggling to understand why you think I'm one of the top candidates at this point in the game. I got invested guilty, and invested shion as guilty. What more is there that makes you pick me, I need clarification lmao. This is my first type of game with this setup, and while I appreciate the chart, I'm hella confused by the way you worded things. @RAIL_GUN

 

[oddoddfruit]

Hayumi, there's only two paranoid cops in this setup, paranoid cops always get guilty. Railgun has deduced that only four players could possibly be paranoid cop. This doesn't mean that if only 2 are Paranoid Cop therefore the other two are Mafia, the other two could be anything.

Railgun is looking at the most logical way forward with our information

 

[joby]

@RAIL_GUN what is making you approach from this route? Your process is v different from mine as I mentioned before so I’m curious if this is how you approach all mafia games or if it’s just because of this set up. Have you played a setup like this before? Do we figure out who is who after an execution?
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Hayumi, there's only two paranoid cops in this setup, paranoid cops always get guilty. Railgun has deduced that only four players could possibly be paranoid cop. This doesn't mean that if only 2 are Paranoid Cop therefore the other two are Mafia, the other two could be anything.

Railgun is looking at the most logical way forward with our information

Noted

 

[oddoddfruit]

We know the rolelist and how the cops work, we get invest results and work backwards from that..
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You can also do results from your point of view, e.g. I know I'm Cop and Rej got Inno on me so Rej can't be Paranoid or Insane, only Sane, Naive or Mafia.


Only take this step in logic for yourself at the moment because nobody is confirmed

 

[joby]

Ok but then what’s the point of even playing if it’s all just gonna be according to such rigid logic?
Sorry, I know that that doesn’t help, just voicing a concern.

I generally am weary of people telling me how to do things because their way is ‘obviously’ the best way

like, @Hayumi hasn’t done anything scummy at all but we are supposed to vote them because of rng? The idea is that Hayumi is most probable right now to be scum and least probable to be sane/insane? Correct?

well, @Hayumi the gods of logic and desire have spoken, what say you? convince us you aren’t scum.
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You can also do results from your point of view, e.g. I know I'm Cop and Rej got Inno on me so Rej can't be Paranoid or Insane, only Sane, Naive or Mafia.

Alrighty I’ll give it a shot

 

[Hayumi]

Hayumi, there's only two paranoid cops in this setup, paranoid cops always get guilty. Railgun has deduced that only four players could possibly be paranoid cop. This doesn't mean that if only 2 are Paranoid Cop therefore the other two are Mafia, the other two could be anything.

Railgun is looking at the most logical way forward with our information

Oh ok thanks, that somewhat makes sense then. But I know im a town cop so like< all I know is I'm not naive based off my results on shion, but I could obviously be any of the other three. So like that's all I really have to say.

@joby ^

 

[oddoddfruit]

Personally I want to vote off Beky but I need to look at the information pool more closely and see where that gets us

 

[RAIL_GUN]

Um explain in simpler terms why you think I'm a good choice for a lynch again?

I'm struggling to understand why you think I'm one of the top candidates at this point in the game. I got invested guilty, and invested shion as guilty. What more is there that makes you pick me, I need clarification lmao. This is my first type of game with this setup, and while I appreciate the chart, I'm hella confused by the way you worded things. @RAIL_GUN

@RAIL_GUN what is making you approach from this route? Your process is v different from mine as I mentioned before so I’m curious if this is how you approach all mafia games or if it’s just because of this set up. Have you played a setup like this before? Do we figure out who is who after an execution?

Basically you don't usually play Dethy games like you would a normal Mafia. Because the setup is designed to be solved like a puzzle. So te reason I picked you was because we have 4 guilty investigations. We know there are two Paranoid Cop townies in there. That leaves two left over. Could be one scum, could be two scum, could be no scum. By cutting through that list we get closer to instantly resolving two players right from the off. I removed Fallen Prince from that pool because he has three innocents on him. Doesn't mean he can't be scum, but it mkes the possiblity less likely. That leaves you (Hayumi), Gambit and Samael. Out of those Samael was the last to claim. In this setup, that makes him a lynch candidate due to being advantaged (having seen all other claimed invesitgations before him). We also want our lynch to have had at least one investigation result on them, because then we can further deduce which sanities those who investigated them can and can't be. Out of those 4 players, the only two who had investigations on them were yourself and Fallen Prince. Given that I earlier removed Fallen Prince, that leaves just you.

This is not the only way to approach it though. There is also value in lynching one of the players who claimed Innocent, to shorten that pool down. In fact there is a very good argument that that is better than going into the Guilty pool. I just made a suggestion, I don't really want people to just follow me on it. In which case, the best lynches would be myself, Beky and Shion. This is because each player has a Guilty and an Innocent on them, and having a confirmed flip will help us deduce who is sane, insane and potentially naive. Now that I think about it, that may actually be a smarter move.

In any case, I suggest we decide soon. To be clear then, the lynch candidates should be as follows:

Beky
RAIL_GUN
Shion

OR

Hayumi
Samael*

Any one of these five should be fairly useful, though Samael is probably the least useful in terms of resolving investigations. I'd probably pick between Beky and Shion if we go into the above set, because Hayumi copped Shion, and Samael copped Beky. If either flip Innocent, we know that Hayumi or Samael must either be Paranoid (of which there is a pool of 4 possible candidates for two Paranoid cops) or Insane. Does that make sense?

 

[oddoddfruit]

I threadmarked Railguns day 1 investigation table for easy reference

And yeah, I guess we could vote for Beky and see what information we get from his flip
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Vote Lynch Beky

@Nessos
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And mafia should kill me tonight because I will figure out this game by tomorrow

 

[RAIL_GUN]

Ok but then what’s the point of even playing if it’s all just gonna be according to such rigid logic?
Sorry, I know that that doesn’t help, just voicing a concern.

Dethy is, to be honest, more of a game of logic than it is a game of Mafia. This is somewhat mitigated by the further confusion this extended Dethy setup brings, but I can't see any reason to believe it wouldn't play out the same. The main purpose of a Dethy is to introduce players to the idea of Cop sanities, which get woefully underused in actual Mafia games. For example in a normal Mafia game you typically expect one cop, right? But when you factor in Sanities, you can begin to see setups that have more than one cop, and it adds a whole new dimension to claiming and analysing those claims.

Going away from the point here, so feel free to ignore this part, Sanity can also affect Trackers and Watchers. An Insane Tracker gets themselves in their results, a Naive tracker will receive the target of any Protective abilities (or none, if none exist) and a Paranoid Tracker will receive the target of any kill attempt (or none, if none exist). As for Watcher, Insane Watchers receive everyone but whomever targeted their target, a Naive Watcher receives "no one" or "no results" and a Paranoid Watcher receives every player.

 

[joby]

Vote abolish rail_gun

nothing personal, I just don’t trust how controlling you are being and how you push Hayumi but then say we have to choose between a bunch of different people—and including yourself in the list here:

In any case, I suggest we decide soon. To be clear then, the lynch candidates should be as follows:

Beky
RAIL_GUN
Shion

OR

Hayumi
Samael*

feels like an unnecessary gesture.... like it’s a little manipulative to include yourself out of principle but then say this:

I'd probably pick between Beky and Shion if we go into the above set, because Hayumi copped Shion, and Samael copped Beky. If either flip Innocent, we know that Hayumi or Samael must either be Paranoid (of which there is a pool of 4 possible candidates for two Paranoid cops) or Insane. Does that make sense?

and don’t even bother to mention that if we vote you out and you flip innocent then we know that @Gambit is either insane/paranoid and @oddoddfruit is either sane/naive.

if you flip scum, then Odd has to be an insane cop.

both outcomes are Much more useful to have confirmed because we can use them next day to cross reference in case you are innocent

so for now. I choose you. And I urge my kin to do the same. There. Logic.

 

[RAIL_GUN]

nothing personal, I just don’t trust how controlling you are being and how you push Hayumi but then say we have to choose between a bunch of different people—and including yourself in the list here:

I don't really feel like I have been controlling. I've played in lots of Dethys, so I am explaining what is typically done in them.

feels like an unnecessary gesture.... like it’s a little manipulative to include yourself out of principle but then say this:

Eh, I'd argue it would be worse if I didn't include myself.

and don’t even bother to mention that if we vote you out and you flip innocent then we know that @Gambit is either insane/paranoid and @oddoddfruit is either sane/naive.

You missed a key part of that post. I said "I'd" vote for Beky or Shion. Because of course I wouldn't vote for myself. However, I'd also note that you missed the point I was getting at with that paragraph. Hayumi and Samael were the two given in the other pool. I was pointing out that a lynch on Beky or Shion links to the pool of two I gave in the Guilty set. A lynch on me links to Gambit, who was not provided as a lynch candidate. Hence why I put those two names forward, ya?
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I mean testing out Odd and Gambit is perfectly valid, I won't be overly upset if I am lynched today. But I will also note that on your logic, a lynch on Beky would prove me Insane or Sane/Naive and Samael Insane or Sane/Paranoid, and a lynch on Shion would prove Salah Sane/Naive or Insane, and Hayumi Sane/Paranoid or Insane. Similarly a lynch on me would prove Gambit either Sane/Paranoid or Insane, and Odd either Sane/Naive or Insane. So all three have equal value on that. Just that Beky investigated into the Guilty lynch pool I provided, as did Shion.

 

[Beky]

I just woke up. Gimme a sec

 

[Nessos]

Vote Count
Samael -> Beky
Rej -> Shion
Rail_Gun -> Hayumi
Odd -> Beky
Joby -> Rail_Gun

Beky: 2
Shion, Hayumi, Rail_Gun: 1


10h 30min left until Day 1 ends​

 

[Samael]

I just looked into my role and there’s nothing about being paranoid. This shit is weird and I can tell scum hunting will be on the back burner for awhile I’ll be back once things pick up I guess.

 

[RAIL_GUN]

I just looked into my role and there’s nothing about being paranoid. This shit is weird and I can tell scum hunting will be on the back burner for awhile I’ll be back once things pick up I guess.

The object is to figure out which sanities we are, it's not revealed hence why we need to use the investigation results to eliminate possibilities until only one is left.

 

[Beky]

give me some thoughts and reads

Bush did 9/11

As for reads
Vinland Saga
Kingdom
Witcher

 

[Rej]

Well the only explanation is that you are not a sane cop.


Why would it strikes as odd? I haven't played in a long while now and dunno the player base anymore.


Would like to see more of me while you place your vote? This isn't the way you request to see some more of someone. I also am really curious that you chose me out of the 4 with a lacking reasoning behind it.

I can help the case. I thought your decision for your investigation was questionable and together with the guilty result you got picked by me.

Basically you don't usually play Dethy games like you would a normal Mafia. Because the setup is designed to be solved like a puzzle. So te reason I picked you was because we have 4 guilty investigations. We know there are two Paranoid Cop townies in there. That leaves two left over. Could be one scum, could be two scum, could be no scum. By cutting through that list we get closer to instantly resolving two players right from the off. I removed Fallen Prince from that pool because he has three innocents on him. Doesn't mean he can't be scum, but it mkes the possiblity less likely. That leaves you (Hayumi), Gambit and Samael. Out of those Samael was the last to claim. In this setup, that makes him a lynch candidate due to being advantaged (having seen all other claimed invesitgations before him). We also want our lynch to have had at least one investigation result on them, because then we can further deduce which sanities those who investigated them can and can't be. Out of those 4 players, the only two who had investigations on them were yourself and Fallen Prince. Given that I earlier removed Fallen Prince, that leaves just you.

This is not the only way to approach it though. There is also value in lynching one of the players who claimed Innocent, to shorten that pool down. In fact there is a very good argument that that is better than going into the Guilty pool. I just made a suggestion, I don't really want people to just follow me on it. In which case, the best lynches would be myself, Beky and Shion. This is because each player has a Guilty and an Innocent on them, and having a confirmed flip will help us deduce who is sane, insane and potentially naive. Now that I think about it, that may actually be a smarter move.

In any case, I suggest we decide soon. To be clear then, the lynch candidates should be as follows:

Beky
RAIL_GUN
Shion

OR

Hayumi
Samael*

Any one of these five should be fairly useful, though Samael is probably the least useful in terms of resolving investigations. I'd probably pick between Beky and Shion if we go into the above set, because Hayumi copped Shion, and Samael copped Beky. If either flip Innocent, we know that Hayumi or Samael must either be Paranoid (of which there is a pool of 4 possible candidates for two Paranoid cops) or Insane. Does that make sense?

Why are you a candidate again?short summary plx

 

[Beky]

I am town so there is that. Ill take a bullet

 

[Beky]

I dont like the fact Rail obv knows most about this set up but is willing to be killed. Naturally you wanna be selfish and play it out.

Why say lynch me. Seems like scum saying OH YE I AM DEF town look at me i am willing to die