Chapter Discussion One Piece 1007: Tanuki-san

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Clearly Kanjuro killed that man, as the guards thought he was an enemy. And that laughter is clearly a coming from the party going on, along with the "stomp tromp" on he right.


Clearly you did not pay attention, he did beat up the guards, but there also hint someone else there. who beat up the guards.

Or no reading to show momo looking at the ground with the message, pointing to oden signature laugh.. even momo is confused. because someone with dagger wrote the message. kanjuro uses brush as weapon not a dagger!

I edited the picture of odens headshot to show that is clearly blood coming out of his head (maybe even out of the back of his head), but i used an online editor and couldn't download the picture. And after i checked my download folder all my tabs were reloaded. So i lost my work. I am fuming right now.
To avoid getting rude due to anger, I'll keep this brief.
Nothing flies in and blocks the shot. Thats a blood squirt.
I'm not taking sides whether he's alive or not, but he did definitely get hurt. However, such a plot centric injury would definitely leave a scar.
Being rude, and mocking and waiting for a reply huh.

the edit red line was to show the curve of the pattern coming from behind oden and making it to the front.

if that was straight clean bullet it would not pause in the middle and complete it's path.


instead we see don't see it exist at the back of his head in straight line, meaning that is not the bullet.

ALSO explain to me where is oden apparently dead body that even orochi man can't find!!!
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also that does not look like blood splatter. Since when do blood splatter follow direction and curve upwards. and still hover in the air even after oden goes under the water.

it even has space as it follow direction, it's not even fully touching oden head.

it looks more like petals and something else. in the space it goes in direction.

jeeez
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explain to me the blood splatter, because i pointed the bullet direction at it's correct projection.

odd oden might dodged, lean back, but the hell you tell me that other back blood splatter going in some snake line is the blood when it's not even touching oden.

also next scene it's still hovering doing matrix scene. while oden under.. almost like time is freezing.


so again, until you guys can explain where oden dead body vanished to, this clearly points he alive from this hint.
 
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I am starting to think when oda said he was going to introduce Lurking legend it was fuckn Oden.

Maybe it could be time limit and he goes back to the execution spot and dies after witnessing kaido's defeat and decides to rescue scabbard eitherway.

@Nicolo Makaveli @Srundenx

I see 1 percent chance of happening. But how is oda going to explain momo , kinemon and kanjuro stuff. Makes zero sense if she could do this stuff Yoki could have sent alive oden 20 years ahead without him dying.
 
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I am starting to think when oda said he was going to introduce Lurking legend it was fuckn Oden.

Maybe it could time limit and he goes back to the execution spot and dies after witnessing kaido's defeat and decides to rescue scabbard eitherway.

@Nicolo Makaveli @Srundenx

I see 1 percent chance of happening. But how is oda going to explain momo , kinemon and kanjuro stuff. Makes zero sense if he could do this stuff she could have alive oden 20 years ahead wiyhout him dying.
oda said he we introduce us to the lurking legend soon, stayed tuned for wano.

the one who has connection to whitebeard was oden!



the play on words, makes me think he did not fully give it away. after he says lurking legened he cuts off to kaido.

the greatest enemy? oden is not bad, so that would probably point to kaido, unless someone else shows up.

"perhaps it will be something related to whitebeard" This would fit oden as he has connection to whitebeard.

also lurking legend, kaido is not that. as even shanks fighting him, and he been captured by marines before, someone who is lurking means they been hiding for years. and means they where already a legend from there status from before..

They showed oden died a legend, but his body is missing. hinting he might as well be alive, or orochi would not have nightmares and hire a body guard because he afraid of oden coming back.. meaning they never did find his body...
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Odd details trying to make sense of something for cave scene.

Kanjuro and Momo scene, when in cave. Kanjuro beats up some of the guards, but momo noticed there was already fighting and blood from before and message left in blood with a dagger and oden laugh.

Meaning this might be a reason why some of the guards attacked kanjuro because they saw oden!, as seen by message written in blood, and oden laugh. and then they see kanjuro enter the cave soon after, the same area oden was, this is either there not aware of him? even though kaido and orochi should alerted them, or if they where told. did they think double cross? (the ones in the cave)




even Kanjuro states "from the guards perspective i'm just another one of the enemy samurai"

this makes sense kinda, though kaido aware of him, yet again he not tell top guards about kanjuro??





he states the guards who took him for enemy, he silenced.. making sure the loose ends are quite, also Orochi does not even question why the guards attacked him, and kaido warns them, also kanjuro says don't worry momo alive..as for the guards attacking him (though this probably because he undercover for orochi, but should make sense orochi and kaido told his guards about kanjuro or not!? either way the blood message before kanjuro arrived is suspicious.

next


he didn't even bother sending some drawn birds to alert orochi of the rest coming......and just casually shrug it off.. where before we've seen him send drawn messenger to orochi. he had alot time to resend the correct information with other batch of birds.

look guys i'm just trying to make sense with information/clues oden given. because clearly oden is shown alive and also big elephant in the room, orochi and other never found his gawd damn body.

so off chance possible kanjuro double agent, for lazy slack work when the time comes for the others to invade. and information getting mixed up etc.
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he still could be traitor, but off chance might not, his reaction to oden betrayal showed him frustrated and anger that they still decided to kill oden.
 
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Kanjurou makes the most sense saving Oden during that trial. It could have been a drawing of a tiny creature that he'd enable to appear as fast as it could to block the shot. Blocking a shot from a gun is very common, even more so dodging it.

It could've been a.conspiracy between Toki and Kanjuros df abilities. Hence, we didn't see Oden.
 
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Kanjurou makes the most sense saving Oden during that trial. It could have been a drawing of a tiny creature that he'd enable to appear as fast as it could to block the shot. Blocking a shot from a gun is very common, even more so dodging it.

It could've been a.conspiracy between Toki and Kanjuros df abilities. Hence, we didn't see Oden.
i'v been staring at that image with head shot..does not look like blood splatter but then again not colored, also bullet line direction does not even angle at oden head correctly. which makes me doubt it.

so yeah, it being a drawing might be possible. since oda didn't show kanjuro fully when oden drops them. Plus he did not kill momo, and also did not send new information kinemon coming, and even orochi scolds him for it...

also what do you guys think of this?

Saw this person bring this clue up, and found it interesting! did not get it at first until noticed what sengoku said.

Sengoku: "There's no way that Oden has something to do with what's happening.."

also he brought up oden to the newer marines, for info. this could imply he knows oden alive!! or is he aware of what happened to oden years ago. but he still decided to bring oden information up, plus oda not shown his wanted poster. implying we will see it later because he is alive.
 
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I believe Kanjruo might have something to do because I don't fucking buy his death. It's underwhelming in all corners of perspective and story telling. Among all the figures in this arc, Kanjuro is one of the most influential and integral part of the story. Being there from Dreasrosa til now, doesn't make sense to be ended up like that. Orochis death is at the same level. Now, I am not tryna tell that Orochi may still be alive and will affect the story. I don't know how he's gonna give much importance 5o the current situation aside from commiting sepukku. But Kanjuro, I love Knajuro's character. He coould practically be the most loyal retainer, posing as a double agent. If this is not the case, then I bet that he's good for character redemption. He is still as important as the rest of the scabbards. He will be reintroduced and we'd get to learn what really transpired between him and Kiku and of Oden and the boiling pot.
 
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I believe Kanjruo might have something to do because I don't fucking buy his death. It's underwhelming in all corners of perspective and story telling. Among all the figures in this arc, Kanjuro is one of the most influential and integral part of the story. Being there from Dreasrosa til now, doesn't make sense to be ended up like that. Orochis death is at the same level. Now, I am not tryna tell that Orochi may still be alive and will affect the story. I don't know how he's gonna give much importance 5o the current situation aside from commiting sepukku. But Kanjuro, I love Knajuro's character. He coould practically be the most loyal retainer, posing as a double agent. If this is not the case, then I bet that he's good for character redemption. He is still as important as the rest of the scabbards. He will be reintroduced and we'd get to learn what really transpired between him and Kiku and of Oden and the boiling pot.
Yeah 100% agree with kanjuro, he is shown to be master actor and take his job seriously. Oda made it look like there a traitor, when that might not be the case, and was double agent meaning there was no traitor, but it seemed that way from story telling perspective early on. encase worse case scenario happens and they try to kill oden. explaining why we see kanjuro looking angry/frustrated in tears.

yeah that possible and thinking about it to for orochi.


basically orochi point 2, the little creep..plus oda still showed his head... but not the body..depending on how df regrows in which body it regrows.


also that video...i had almost missed it beside sengoku hint

Sengoku: Oden was favored by white beard,Roger, RedHair

Redhair!??? that would imply shanks older and his crew name, the red haired pirates!!, where oden was supposed to die when shanks was a kid.. in the time frame......

!!!

Red hair pirates!!

:monkaOMEGA:
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also oda had orochi fear oden, comeback. then he makes it look like he dead..when his df could possibly revive him? meaning orochi will see oden when he regrows back....

oden phrase i remember was "creepy"

that sums up orochi if he able to regrow, even if one head is cut off. he grows a new one.
 
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Not sure if they really meant shanks. I advise go vheck the manga and see if it is a fucked up translation.
this scene will probably be timeframe when they leave whole cake or midway?

and yeah, gonna go backtrack and check to make sure.
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it's in manga it says red hair, though i will try to find the chapter!
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@Gambit chapter 957 i see two translation and both mention red hair.




Plus shanks was fighting in wano, but came back to stop the war.....luffy..which oden would need alive..
 
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this scene will probably be timeframe when they leave whole cake or midway?

and yeah, gonna go backtrack and check to make sure.
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it's in manga it says red hair, though i will try to find the chapter!
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@Gambit chapter 957 i see two translation and both mention red hair.




Plus shanks was fighting in wano, but came back to stop the war.....luffy..which oden would need alive..
Shanks fighting in Wano?
 
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he was fighting kaido, i remember. ah! so not wano location correct? I just remember it mention shanks was fighting kaido.
It could be anywhere actually. Now that Sengoku mentioned Shanks, I wonder if he was only referring to Shanks as a kid who knew Oden or the current Shanks who still have ties with Oden. That's somehing to ponder on
 
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It could be anywhere actually. Now that Sengoku mentioned Shanks, I wonder if he was only referring to Shanks as a kid who knew Oden or the current Shanks who still have ties with Oden. That's somehing to ponder on
yes that true, though i noticed buggy and shanks as kid more closer to each other as friends. so curious if he meant older. plus oden body was never found.. and shanks seems more aware of whats happening.



oden was close to whitebeard, kaido going in for the kill. plus whitebeard would hate kaido for what he attempted on his little brother Oden.

Also kaido seems cautious of oden appearing from his reactions. As seen in the fights, when scabbards appear he see oden, and even sense oden presence in zoro sword.. meaning for him to sense oden presence means oden still alive. Maybe he heard rumor of oden alive, why he tried to attack whitebeard. because even they could not find oden body. which gives kaido reason to suspect oden might still be alive.

and he shown to go off on his own, was he searching!? for that clue.
 
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Or no reading to show momo looking at the ground with the message, pointing to oden signature laugh.. even momo is confused. because someone with dagger wrote the message. kanjuro uses brush as weapon not a dagger!
That's not a message, that's someone's bloodied hand that dropped the dagger. Momo later uses that dagger to try to escape and hurt kanjuros hand. That's what the panel focuses on.
also that does not look like blood splatter. Since when do blood splatter follow direction and curve upwards. and still hover in the air even after oden goes under the water.

it even has space as it follow direction, it's not even fully touching oden head.

it looks more like petals and something else. in the space it goes in direction.

jeeez
Blood can do what it wants.


The bullet impacted on his skull. Most of its force carries on and pushes his head back, but while the bullet enters its skin it displaces volume with great force, creating a splash of blood. While his head goes backwards odens blood pressure forces more blood out of the wound.
The black dots behind him are either skull and blood fragments from an exit wound or oil droplets from him jerking his left hand.

also next scene it's still hovering doing matrix scene. while oden under.. almost like time is freezing.
The blood was still spraying up from his skull while his body was already falling. Of course it has some airtime.


If there really was a fairy that flew in and saved oden, Oda would not have disguised her as a blood spatter. That would be lying to us. He would be abusing the limits of his medium (color and drawing accuracy) to withhold something from us. How would the anime be able to adapt that?



ALSO explain to me where is oden apparently dead body that even orochi man can't find!!!
I'm not saying he's definitely dead, I'm just saying this evidence is wrong. There is plenty other fishy stuff going on in that chapter, like how in the end, "Oden" didn't have his shackles, or him saying "My soul will live on", or "Toki, Momonosuke, Hiyori, I shall be the first to leave" (to the future?) that could be used to justify his reappearance.
I'd also buy that he survived the shot, maybe lost an eye, but he definitely got hurt and bled.
Speculating that oda deliberately drew bad art to deceive us would not be wise.
 
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Kaido has kaoi kaoi no mi model , the fish scales protects hkm its resonable explanation.

What wouldn't explain is dead man being brought alive .

Also i dont see point of adding oden with 5SNs doing fine taking on 2 yonkos. Anything i see will be plothole now.
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Pell surviving could be because of mythical zoan durability. Not saying it was terrible of course Pell should have been killed we might say he survived that blast courtesy of his df power.

How can oda explan a dead man boiled at the temprature of mini sun and say he is alright. Both of them are different scdnrio and the way oda writes death its always shown in epic way .

If the character is offscreen like Sabo then there is validity of doubt.

Also its true his writing quality has dipped , i criticized even back in older forum when he couldnt get develop decent plot fod Sanji's growth he randomly adds up raid suit . If he decides to write like tite kubo then i would just read for endgame of the series thats how i read bleach .
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My only worry is Oda will fuck with Tokis time fruit and write awakening powers to send oden for brief time period and goes back to his timeline.

If he does that i might well be done with this manga thats for certain.
A zoan DF doesn't work like that his DF needs to be active Kaido was in his human form come on man....

You must really think Zoan users have God tier durablility. Yet no other character can? So let me get this straight Oden basically SHOULD have died the minute he went in but he didn't yet somehow people have a problem that he didn't die. It's a shounen series, the man has shown to have BS durability just like Kaido but because the OP fanbase worship the yonko they get a free pass for anything.
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I believe Kanjruo might have something to do because I don't fucking buy his death. It's underwhelming in all corners of perspective and story telling. Among all the figures in this arc, Kanjuro is one of the most influential and integral part of the story. Being there from Dreasrosa til now, doesn't make sense to be ended up like that. Orochis death is at the same level. Now, I am not tryna tell that Orochi may still be alive and will affect the story. I don't know how he's gonna give much importance 5o the current situation aside from commiting sepukku. But Kanjuro, I love Knajuro's character. He coould practically be the most loyal retainer, posing as a double agent. If this is not the case, then I bet that he's good for character redemption. He is still as important as the rest of the scabbards. He will be reintroduced and we'd get to learn what really transpired between him and Kiku and of Oden and the boiling pot.
You guys do realize your so called double agent had momo basically sentenced to death??

I also thought Orochi's death felt anti-climatic. I thought maybe he could survive due to the nature of his DF but it wasn't active so I doubt it.
 
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A zoan DF doesn't work like that his DF needs to be active Kaido was in his human form come on man....

You must really think Zoan users have God tier durablility. Yet no other character can? So let me get this straight Oden basically SHOULD have died the minute he went in but he didn't yet somehow people have a problem that he didn't die. It's a shounen series, the man has shown to have BS durability just like Kaido but because the OP fanbase worship the yonko they get a free pass for anything.
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You guys do realize your so called double agent had momo basically sentenced to death??

I also thought Orochi's death felt anti-climatic. I thought maybe he could survive due to the nature of his DF but it wasn't active so I doubt it.
yeah what he did looks bad, i know. but he went the same path as oden.

also look






We really slept on wano.. with not fully paying attention, i do plan to reread it all.

he basically said it in the open!


Delayed by 20 years, and kanjuro said it! Also look at his ink arrows, fast projection, which could been what saved oden from bullet with one of his drawing clues. (different drawing)

He just outright said toki and oden survived and delayed their deaths by 20 years!!!!!!!, then he goes the same path in the cave oden was in hint...

He is giving momo clues, but not saying anything. also momo didn't even notice him mention oden and toki possibility being alive...as he crying.. and even kaido shown concern!? when he sees momo condition (He respected oden, and held back on killing momo), and kanjuro quickly assures kaido he still ok. (i'm wondering if kaido took over top dog to kanjuro then orochi, as kaido kills him later) or is there some master plan kanjuro is following for certain conditions..

orochi and kaido never found his body, so they are scared/suspicious

yet kanjuro speaks of them like he knows what happen!


he frowning and upset, looks he holding back... then slowly turns foreword on their way.. he doesn't even try to send new information while in the sky alerting kaido or orochi of kinemon and rest coming. he takes his time, and goes sorry casually when he finally arrives. with kaido reaction to momo and kanjuro noticed right away kaido concern for momo

Also before this, he said he finally completed his role....if double agent real!? means his fake evil role. since no one is stopping him in the air from reporting again with new information... and momo only gets hurt after they leave the cave. So kanjuro had the chance to report his complete role!?
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wait

kanjuro was ported to the future, around the time kaido and orochi learned they could not find oden body!!

how would he know oden and possible toki alive!!?? and speak like there alive and missed their chance to die..... where kaido and orochi are not even sure except for the missing body of oden..!!

also i do wonder of orochi story plot around oden/his nightmares etc. Since it look like he would have orochi worst fear confirmed. of oden being alive but then he just ends him with kaido..
 
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yeah what he did looks bad, i know. but he went the same path as oden.

also look






We really slept on wano.. with not fully paying attention, i do plan to reread it all.
okay I need to point something out here. Remember Momo was talking about the Scabbards when he said :They're going to die" so when Kanjuro said "Their" he is referring to to the scabbards not Toki and Oden because Toki and Oden delayed their deaths. Remember Oden stayed in the boiling pot allowing them to survive and Toki transported them to the future so this is what Kanjuro actually meant.

he basically said it in the open!


Delayed by 20 years, and kanjuro said it! Also look at his ink arrows, fast projection, which could been what saved oden from bullet with one of his drawing clues. (different drawing)

He just outright said toki and oden survived and delayed their deaths by 20 years!!!!!!!, then he goes the same path in the cave oden was in hint...

He is giving momo clues, but not saying anything. also momo didn't even notice him mention oden and toki possibility being alive...as he crying.. and even kaido shown concern!? when he sees momo condition (He respected oden, and held back on killing momo), and kanjuro quickly assures kaido he still ok. (i'm wondering if kaido took over top dog to kanjuro then orochi, as kaido kills him later) or is there some master plan kanjuro is following for certain conditions..

orochi and kaido never found his body, so they are scared/suspicious

yet kanjuro speaks of them like he knows what happen!


he frowning and upset, looks he holding back... then slowly turns foreword on their way.. he doesn't even try to send new information while in the sky alerting kaido or orochi of kinemon and rest coming. he takes his time, and goes sorry casually when he finally arrives. with kaido reaction to momo and kanjuro noticed right away kaido concern for momo
Ok fair point but Kanjuro didn't need to take Momo in the heat of battle, not sending information via bird is one thing but he still showed up IN TIME to warn them of an attack. Think about it, if Kanjuro was a double agent he had already tricked the scabbards at that point he should have arrived much later but he didn't, momo was literally close to dying. As for his face in that panel; dude is a master actor I wouldn't pay too much attention to his expressions.
Also before this, he said he finally completed his role....if double agent real!? means his fake evil role. since no one is stopping him in the air from reporting again with new information... and momo only gets hurt after they leave the cave. So kanjuro had the chance to report his complete role!?
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wait

kanjuro was ported to the future, around the time kaido and orochi learned they could not find oden body!!

how would he know oden and possible toki alive!!?? and speak like there alive and missed their chance to die..... where kaido and orochi are not even sure except for the missing body of oden..!!

also i do wonder of orochi story plot around oden/his nightmares etc. Since it look like he would have orochi worst fear confirmed. of oden being alive but then he just ends him with kaido..
When you say this it makes even less sense for him to be a double agent. Lets he protected Oden and is responsible for Oden surviving, why would he over feed the enemy vital information? The minks were basically mascaraed by Jack, it's like he was already trying to destroy the scabbards before Orochi even knew he was back. There is just no way for this monster to be a double agent.
 
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okay I need to point something out here. Remember Momo was talking about the Scabbards when he said :They're going to die" so when Kanjuro said "Their" he is referring to to the scabbards not Toki and Oden because Toki and Oden delayed their deaths. Remember Oden stayed in the boiling pot allowing them to survive and Toki transported them to the future so this is what Kanjuro actually meant.



Ok fair point but Kanjuro didn't need to take Momo in the heat of battle, not sending information via bird is one thing but he still showed up IN TIME to warn them of an attack. Think about it, if Kanjuro was a double agent he had already tricked the scabbards at that point he should have arrived much later but he didn't, momo was literally close to dying. As for his face in that panel; dude is a master actor I wouldn't pay too much attention to his expressions.

When you say this it makes even less sense for him to be a double agent. Lets he protected Oden and is responsible for Oden surviving, why would he over feed the enemy vital information? The minks were basically mascaraed by Jack, it's like he was already trying to destroy the scabbards before Orochi even knew he was back. There is just no way for this monster to be a double agent.
he said toki and oden will finally die, so why bring that up if there already dead. plus he mentions it to momo.

yes your parents will finally die, then goes on to say they delayed their by 20years, that means in 20 years they did not die. or we would not see oden alive now for this phrasing. this how i saw read it.

and agree what he did was really bad, though if oden arrived before him from the clue.. could it be he was waiting to get momo back, but others saved momo and oden didn't have to act soon!?

I look at oden being betrayed, and kanjuro looks frustrated and is crying. even with his actions later on, he still showed tears for oden, showing he does like oden, and even when he holding momo, and kawamutsu attacks him, he quickly put momo at safe distance from the attack.


this scene, when he takes momo to kaido


why is he assuring kaido momo still alive, also now he says momo tried to take the dagger he saw on the ground from the message of oden clue, that was left behind from the other beat up guards!?????

but...MOMO showing silence and confusion from kanjuro claim of him taking the dagger, when he was tied up and can't grab it!

but overall, it does look like kanjuro is bad atm i agree. but some pre-clues he said, and how oden might survived if that was kanjuro drawing, and then toki power activating, explaining why no one found his body. or even toki's later on.



btw i check oden, people said this is not him because he robe is down. and he always wore it around his waist.


It's the same outfit. (plus he seen with it down in a scene with toki and fighting kaido)

the dark lines at the edge middle, are just folded up around his waist line, where when down it's more blank from the side and the back.

we can see oden clothes from back, with no dark lines, because it was from the front being folded, giving illusion.
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so momo sees the message and dagger..left from oden clue.

but he is tied up from the back, and his mouth is covered, plus kanjuro is holding his rope on short leash, momo is close to his side.. how on earth did the boy magically cut his ropes when he can't even move or bend down near the dagger let alone grab it with his mouth, which is covered. plus his hands are tied behind his back!!?

and then kanjuro claims he attempted to cut his ropes...with what hand and what mouth!?????



look at momo

Momo: ?!!!
Momo: .................

that is weird reaction, momo is silent and shows confusion from kanjuro claim. plus when look back the cave scene, we see momo is tied up secured.


kanjuro is lieing imo, and even momo is alert/confused on what kanjuro is doing.
 
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he said toki and oden will finally die, so why bring that up if there already dead. plus he mentions it to momo.

yes your parents will finally die, then goes on to say they delayed their by 20years, that means in 20 years they did not die. or we would not see oden alive now for this phrasing. this how i saw read it.
I think you misunderstood me, I actually think Oden is alive, I just don't believe Kanjuro is aware that he is he may have said that because momo and the scabbards are carrying Oden and Toki will, so if the scabbards dies, Oden and his legacy is dead.

and agree what he did was really bad, though if oden arrived before him from the clue.. could it be he was waiting to get momo back, but others saved momo and oden didn't have to act soon!?
Naomi it is more than bad, imagine if Denjiro who was an agent had killed Hiyori? He was a smart agent his actions made it seem like an enemy while helping his allies at the same can you really say the same for Kanjuro? It makes sense for a double agent to share intel but not to extent where it can get your allies killed. If Kanjuro knew Oden was alive, trust me he would have ratted out Oden.
I look at oden being betrayed, and kanjuro looks frustrated and is crying. even with his actions later on, he still showed tears for oden, showing he does like oden, and even when he holding momo, and kawamutsu attacks him, he quickly put momo at safe distance from the attack.


this scene, when he takes momo to kaido


why is he assuring kaido momo still alive, also now we know momo tried to take the dagger he saw on the ground from the message of oden clue, that was left behind from the other beat up guards.
He was following orders, how does this proves he wants momo to be safe.
but...MOMO showing silence and confusion from kanjuro claim of him taking the dagger, when he was tied up and can't grab it!

but overall, it does look like kanjuro is bad atm i agree. but some pre-clues he said, and how oden might survived if that was kanjuro drawing, and then toki power activating, explaining why no one found his body. or even toki's later on.
I don't remember that happening, if it did that is good evidence to support your claim but I dunno seems impossible given how drastic his actions were against the alliance. He had Yasui and several key characters killed, then almost completely screwed the invasion.


btw i check oden, people said this is not him because he robe is down. and he always wore it around his waist.


It's the same outfit. (plus he seen with it down in a scene with toki and fighting kaido)

the dark lines at the edge middle, are just folded up around his waist line, where when down it's more blank from the side and the back.

we can see oden clothes from back, with no dark lines, because it was from the front being folded, giving illusion.
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so momo sees the message and dagger..left from oden clue.

but he is tied up from the back, and his mouth is covered, plus kanjuro is holding his rope on short leash, momo is close to his side.. how on earth did the boy magically cut his ropes when he can't even move or bend down near the dagger let alone grab it with his mouth, which is covered. plus his hands are tied behind his back!!?

and then kanjuro claims he attempted to cut his ropes...with what hand and what mouth!?????



look at momo

Momo: ?!!!
Momo: .................

that is weird reaction, momo is silent and shows confusion from kanjuro claim. plus when look back the cave scene, we see momo is tied up secured.


kanjuro is lieing imo, and even momo is alert/confused on what kanjuro is doing.
Oh so this is what you meant. Well after he heard the laugh and saw the dagger, he looked up, which meant Momo noticed something. Since Oda didn't show what happened actually happened then yea its likely Kanjuro is lying. I don't see why he went so far as to hand momo to kaido but who knows.
 
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I think you misunderstood me, I actually think Oden is alive, I just don't believe Kanjuro is aware that he is he may have said that because momo and the scabbards are carrying Oden and Toki will, so if the scabbards dies, Oden and his legacy is dead.


Naomi it is more than bad, imagine if Denjiro who was an agent had killed Hiyori? He was a smart agent his actions made it seem like an enemy while helping his allies at the same can you really say the same for Kanjuro? It makes sense for a double agent to share intel but not to extent where it can get your allies killed. If Kanjuro knew Oden was alive, trust me he would have ratted out Oden.

He was following orders, how does this proves he wants momo to be safe.
I don't remember that happening, if it did that is good evidence to support your claim but I dunno seems impossible given how drastic his actions were against the alliance. He had Yasui and several key characters killed, then almost completely screwed the invasion.



Oh so this is what you meant. Well after he heard the laugh and saw the dagger, he looked up, which meant Momo noticed something. Since Oda didn't show what happened actually happened then yea its likely Kanjuro is lying. I don't see why he went so far as to hand momo to kaido but who knows.
ah,i see what you mean, so basically if scabbards die oden and toki memory die to. though with oden alive clue and missing body, plus we did not see kanjuro when oden through him fully, in that time frame. etc

yeah what happen to yasu was bs, but what if kanjuro tampered with the weapons or it was fake yasu with the same speech. etc. and kanjuro smuggled the real one away? making fake realist blood bullets, only for fake blood to come out late, though right now it looks like yasu dead.

but also with that cave scene, momo saw something above, and kanjuro probably noticed, and knocked out momo, explaining why momo is hurt, because kanjuro did not want him blurting out what ever it was or noticing it, meaning there more to the plan, and if double agent. what if he giving information to toki/oden since there thought dead, plus he has to stay in character. when he handed momo to kaido, his cover was bad guy.. but oden already sneaked on the island, plus the eye security. I think oden would saved momo if no one was on time to stop it.

something is off at least.

kanjuro can draw realist drawings, he lied about momo cutting his ropes, while the boy was tied. also looking back the scene, when we see momo glance down at the message we see alert bubble over kanjura head, this is probably when kanjuro turns around, and see the message and knocks momo out. or did kanjuro noticed someone coming in the cave to meet him (If blind spot in security) and knocked momo out, because it would ruin the plan!?
 
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