Chapter Discussion One Piece 1007: Tanuki-san

[Nessos]

yeah that possible and thinking about it to for orochi.

basically orochi point 2, the little creep..plus oda still showed his head... but not the body..dependin

Orochi is not a Greek Hydra, he is Yamato no Orochi. In other words 8 Heads, but no cut 1 -> 2 grow. But yeah like many already mentioned Orochi might be still alive 7 remaining heads.
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Oden is as much as villain as Orochi. He didnt do anything for wano in general after he returned .

Well Orochi had hostages, Oden was gulible believing Orochi has some honorand felt guilty to what happened to Orochis family.

You must have missed these 3 things

 

[Naomi]

Orochi is not a Greek Hydra, he is Yamato no Orochi. In other words 8 Heads, but no cut 1 -> 2 grow. But yeah like many already mentioned Orochi might be still alive 7 remaining heads.
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Well Orochi had hostages, Oden was gulible believing Orochi has some honorand felt guilty to what happened to Orochis family.

You must have missed these 3 things

I was using picture as reference, lmao. of what orochi comeback would look like, if regrows a head. didn't even cross my mind about difference, just that head has potential to regrow and be creepy. lol

 

[Srundenx]

Instead of Oden, i liked Orochi's alive theory because his DF seems special, his instant death seems not enough to erase all of his sins. He need to be punished more. Or if he's alive and Momo decided to forgive him, that will prove the mature side of Momo, that's a good development for him as a future ruler. Kurozumi Clan need to exist for Wano to become complete. All of the Clan exist means the true peace.

 

[Udell]

I don't think they mention if they recovered her body, only orochi mentions oden body missing clue. plus kanjuro saying her and oden will finally die, might be real clue they survived.


the guy sounded interest in failed df, as other question why he bring it up. imo if that guy don't have df and is already monster in strength and sees momo with the failed df, which is probably not.. means potential cp0 killing momo to take it. i'm reading it and that guy even though states it was failure, he sounds unsure.

so kaido and big mom, then problem with cp0 coming after momo for the not so failure df powers. oden showing up balance this.

also see momo transform recent chapter, so not long before cp0 member notice the dragon form.

Why would he kill momo to take it? Wouldn't it be better to capture momo and experiment as to why he was a success and everyone else failed. I mean Momo could be the outlier they were looking for. Oden fought Kaido and failed he might be to hold BM back for a bit but whether or not he can win without his original swords is the real question and honestly he is highly likely to fail unless Oda plans for Luffy to fully 1 v 1 Kaido (which is what I hope to happen), then have kid, law, oden etc team up against BM. If that don't work then BM needs to be removed from the equation.

How can it be an exact same laugh, while it's just "wa ha ha" or "ha ha ha" ?? That's basic laugh, Oda always write those kind of laugh sfx for everyone without specific laugh, it's not something like "worororo" or "gurarara" or "zehahaha" which very characteristic.

As for Kaidou, I'll repeat this "I know how tough Oden was, please don't reassure me, but i know his limit, he was different from Kaidou which only advanced Haki can penetrate his skin, or Big Mom, which only 1 panel had showed her bleed, and that's just a little scratch from her knee. But Oden was different, we saw him bleed so many times, versus Ashura Doji, versus Roger (1 hit at stomatch, bleed from head to toe because of rocks and trees), versus Kaidou (1 hit K.O. like Luffy), and so on, he's not as invicible as you think. Please do not include anime in this conversation, Toei like too exaggerate things. Do you think Kaidou would look like Umibozu after getting carried by a ship 3 days 3 nights ?? Even a little scratch is unlikely to be seen......"

They're different breed, no matter what u did to Kaidou, if it's physical, and not imbued with Adv. Haki, just assume it like he was bitten by a mosquito....

By the way, Luffy doesnt need Oden, he already have Zoro who will be stronger than him, he even inherited Oden sword, ohhh....and this sword thing, it's kinda funny, when u know someone is alive, but u give his sword to somebody to protect it, then give it to their daughter and son at the promised time....soooo funny....why not just keep it safe at somewhere, why not keep it safe at the resurrection point ???? Please do your best at this sword thing....

1. wa ha ha and ha ha ha is completely different mate why are you so adamant about this? It's astounding actually.

2. When did I include anything from anime in this conversation? I haven't even seen the flashback in the anime last time I watch the anime Luffy was in prison, I don't care for Toei please stop making assumptions. I barely watch the anime, and when I do its when I am binge when I am bored.

3. I was just stating possibilities and long term goals. Luffy needs allies to challenge the WG and Oden is literally confirmed to be the strongest samurai. Your head is up your ass if you don't think the samaurai won't be SHP allies after this arc. Who will lead them into battle? 8 year old Momo? Dude there will be 4 admirals (not to mention even more powerful foes backing WG) and Zoro and Luffy is not enough, that's a fact. Back when I was Sanji fan I would say his name here but Sanji reaching Admiral level will be laughable base on his treatment. What's even more laughable is that yall think the WSS (zoro) and PK level Luffy can and single handedly win a war. WB was top tier and got shit on because he was the only yonko level character there and this was a rescue mission.

4. What sword thing are you rambling about now? You are mixing me up with Naomi. I don't think Toki is alive but I do believe Oden may likely be alive though it's likely not his intention and he may have been saved.
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I didn't mean it in literal sense.

First off all, this dude had been dancing for 5 years, for fu*king 5 years. During those 5 years he didn't come up with a plan, refused to ask help from his retainers or friends from his journey, never asked an opinion from anyone, fully and unquestionably trusted to a fu*king pirate etc. I can go with this list for very long.

And when he finally, finally realized that Kaido and Orochi have no interest to keep their promise to him, instead of mobilizing the entire military power of his followers he took his nine samurais and headed straight up towards Kaido's base. I mean this guy is fu*king genius... Kaido himself said that Oden was superior when it came to military strength, Oden had more people under him than Kaido did. Oden did not took any of them with him, at all. And dispite all of that, he still managed to defeat Kaido with only nine samurais against Kaido's thousand strong army, and would have killed him if it wasn't for the old hag.

Oden lost to Kaido not because of the old hag but because he didn't took enough man power with him to ensure his back. And I wouldn't be mad if it was just in between Oden and Kaido, but no... It was about the safety of Oden's family and kingdom, it was about the duty of a husband to his wife and children–it was about the duty of a king to his kingdom. It wasn't a simple Pairet vs Pairet game, it was about survival of thousands of people including his own family. Oden had all the tools to esaly crash Kaido but he simply didn't do so. That is a non existent character because no character (whether stupid or not) would do something like that. Oden's actions do not fit into his character.

Man I laughed soo bloody hard while reading this because it's true. Oden is a world class troll and is stupid to the core mainly because he acted like a fool for 5 years instead of straight up attacking and people think it's just the villains that mess up lmao.

 

[Nicolo Makaveli]

Man I laughed soo bloody hard while reading this because it's true. Oden is a world class troll and is stupid to the core mainly because he acted like a fool for 5 years instead of straight up attacking and people think it's just the villains that mess up lmao.

This is why Oden coming back (dispite how ridiculous it might sound to us) does make a little bit of sense. I very well know that Oden coming back might ruin Wano arc's setup, but here's what... there is no Wano arc setup in first place. The entire motion that Oden lost because of the bad guys cheating or blackmailing Oden doesn't make sense. Oden would and should have defeated Kaido and him losing to Kaido instead, makes it very, very suspicious to me.

Oden knew exactly, and I mean exactly what's going to happen into the future, up to the details. He knew that 20 years in the future the supernovas will enter the grand line, he knew that they will fight against Kaido, he knew that that there's going to be a huge war against the WG atc. How could he know about all of that? It can't be a simple prophecy. It is very likely that Toki could not just send people into the future but also to see the future events, like time window that allows you to see the glimpse of future. I mean how did she know the exact time frame when Oden will start his journey; how did she know the exact place where Oden would meet her; how did she know the exact time frame where Luffy would meet Momonoske? If she missed the time frame even for a week then Luffy would have never met Momo and she herself would have never met Oden.

Another thing that doesn't make sense at all, is the fact that Oden had the opportunity to escape the cell he was held on, but he simply gave up. Please, someone example to me, why didn't Oden cut his cell when he had his swords with him? How–just fu*king how? He still had the upper hand over Kaido, he was still stronger than Kaido, he still could have asked help from Whitbeard or Rayleigh, for god's sake whhhyyyy??????
And then we have this weird conversation of Oden and Toki: in their last conversation instead of being emotional or stuff like that, Toki is carefree smiling... like I know that she wanted to be strong etc. Bla. Bla. Bla. But smiling–seriously? Your fu*king husband is going to be boiled alive and you're just smiling, that's it? What about your children, what about Wano country?
Why didn't Toki send her children to Whitbeard for protection instead of sending them to 20 years whiteout no guarantee that they would survive? Like, what type of loving mother would do that to her children?

The entire Wano arc setup is a big, preposterously huge plot hole and no one wants to talk about it because everyone pretend that they like Wano arc, when in reality, everyone are just confused and don't know what's going on. Oden coming back could finally explain everything, from their wired actions and choices to their unreasonable behavior in the flashback. It might be that Oden and Toki planned all of this to fool the world government, Kaido, and the entire world. They wanted to see and participate in the final war, Oden himself says Toki that she can jump into 20 years if she wants to see the final war. All of this can be explained in one chapter with Oden telling the scabbards about their grand plan that they came up with Toki to turn this world upside down.

 

[Udell]

This is why Oden coming back (dispite how ridiculous it might sound to us) does make a little bit of sense. I very well know that Oden coming back might ruin Wano arc's setup, but here's what... there is no Wano arc setup in first place. The entire motion that Oden lost because of the bad guys cheating or blackmailing Oden doesn't make sense. Oden would and should have defeated Kaido and him losing to Kaido instead, makes it very, very suspicious to me.

Oden knew exactly, and I mean exactly what's going to happen into the future, up to the details. He knew that 20 years in the future the supernovas will enter the grand line, he knew that they will fight against Kaido, he knew that that there's going to be a huge war against the WG atc. How could he know about all of that? It can't be a simple prophecy. It is very likely that Toki could not just send people into the future but also to see the future events, like time window that allows you to see the glimpse of future. I mean how did she know the exact time frame when Oden will start his journey; how did she know the exact place where Oden would meet her; how did she know the exact time frame where Luffy would meet Momonoske? If she missed the time frame even for a week then Luffy would have never met Momo and she herself would have never met Oden.

Another thing that doesn't make sense at all, is the fact that Oden had the opportunity to escape the cell he was held on, but he simply gave up. Please, someone example to me, why didn't Oden cut his cell when he had his swords with him? How–just fu*king how? He still had the upper hand over Kaido, he was still stronger than Kaido, he still could have asked help from Whitbeard or Rayleigh, for god's sake whhhyyyy??????
And then we have this weird conversation of Oden and Toki: in their last conversation instead of being emotional or stuff like that, Toki is carefree smiling... like I know that she wanted to be strong etc. Bla. Bla. Bla. But smiling–seriously? Your fu*king husband is going to be boiled alive and you're just smiling, that's it? What about your children, what about Wano country?
Why didn't Toki send her children to Whitbeard for protection instead of sending them to 20 years whiteout no guarantee that they would survive? Like, what type of loving mother would do that to her children?

The entire Wano arc setup is a big, preposterously huge plot hole and no one wants to talk about it because everyone pretend that they like Wano arc, when in reality, everyone are just confused and don't know what's going on. Oden coming back could finally explain everything, from their wired actions and choices to their unreasonable behavior in the flashback. It might be that Oden and Toki planned all of this to fool the world government, Kaido, and the entire world. They wanted to see and participate in the final war, Oden himself says Toki that she can jump into 20 years if she wants to see the final war. All of this can be explained in one chapter with Oden telling the scabbards about their grand plan that they came up with Toki to turn this world upside down.

Not sure if Wano is a plot hole someone would have to explain to me why it is because at this point it seems we are still in the set up stage.

I don't pretend to like Wano arc, I just don't care anymore. It's too the point where I can't point out small details like Naomi anymore. Usually I remember shit cause I use to read chapters like 3 times upon release. Now I really could care less. Maybe the development with Sanji really let me down and now I just read weekly because I just want to know how the story ends. Truthfully I am mostly disappointed in One Piece post time skip. I got so mad at WCI that I don't think I will recover from it. Wano's set up was extremely long and drawn out but I can't say i'm surprised. If I were you I wouldn't expect Oda to explain what Oden and Toki was planning in one chapter. Probably gonna be a drawn out 2 chapters at best.

One Piece is a great story and Wano is ok imo. Nothing has really blown my mind. I mean I stop reading for a whole year and mostly focus on other things. Long time ago I couldn't even imagine doing that. I set my expectations low for this arc because if I didn't I would be upset. So however this plays out, I'll take it and leave it at that.

 

[Nessos]

I don't get why people use to call almost everything they don't like a plothole

If there is a plothole that gets filled and explained fast then it was never a plothole. Just sth. that wasn't directly explained.

 

[Rej]

Yo, I dropped my explanation to this on one or two discords.

So remember the soul forest on Skypiea with these unique trees? I believe that the ancient humans fromt he ancient kingdom were able to create gates to the spirit realm. I believe such a realm exists, it's feeding the world with powers, for example Devil Fruits and their powers. But also the powers of creatures.

We now have seen several creatures in Wano possessing powers and we consider them a reference to "Yokai". Similair with Onimaru and Kumainu. I believe Wano is one of the last active places that have gates to this spirit realm.

Now the current day in Wano is a very special day, the Fire Festival.

We know that we currently move towards the Flower Capitol, we saw the mountain and theoretically we must be above the Flower Capitol at any given chance. So what I think happened is simple:
Due to the Fire Festival the spirit realm opened its gates.
Oden upon his death had such a strong will, man he was so powerful, he was able to manifest himself into the spirit realm.
Oden from now on is a spirit that watches over Wano and it's destiny and he literally came to protect Wano.
I believe, since Onigashima is about to fall into the Flower Capitol, that those spirits were sent throgh the gate so they can stop the falling Onigashima before the gates close again.

Toki is also dead I feel, but I believe Toki knew about thisl, I believe her ancestors back then when building Wano or helping with it, were actually setting up those gates or mechanisms for the spirit realm. Maybe this is a huge reason why Wano is closed to the outside world and in order to protect it. And here comes the big clue: I believe Lough Tale is similair, if not Lough Tale might have the strongest gate to this realm. And I believe that Brook and his power will be a relevant plot point to this, maybe if Brook sings the tales of Lough Tale and the Ancient Kingdom, then he might open up the gate.

Anyway, I believe both Toki and Oden are real, for now, just for this day and in order to protect the Flower Capitol, help the scabbards, and especially help Luffy. I believe that we will get insights into the lore of Wano through Toki, she will have to explain this mechanism protecting Wano, this spirit realm, she is the only one who might know.
That is why I am convinced that soon we will get the first glimpse to the void century flashback, via Toki, explaining how Wano came to be and how it's power came to be.

So yeah that's that for now, I have so many thoughts.

10/10 chapter and Chopper is MVP outside of the rooftop events.

 

[Naomi]

Why would he kill momo to take it? Wouldn't it be better to capture momo and experiment as to why he was a success and everyone else failed. I mean Momo could be the outlier they were looking for. Oden fought Kaido and failed he might be to hold BM back for a bit but whether or not he can win without his original swords is the real question and honestly he is highly likely to fail unless Oda plans for Luffy to fully 1 v 1 Kaido (which is what I hope to happen), then have kid, law, oden etc team up against BM. If that don't work then BM needs to be removed from the equation.


1. wa ha ha and ha ha ha is completely different mate why are you so adamant about this? It's astounding actually.

2. When did I include anything from anime in this conversation? I haven't even seen the flashback in the anime last time I watch the anime Luffy was in prison, I don't care for Toei please stop making assumptions. I barely watch the anime, and when I do its when I am binge when I am bored.

3. I was just stating possibilities and long term goals. Luffy needs allies to challenge the WG and Oden is literally confirmed to be the strongest samurai. Your head is up your ass if you don't think the samaurai won't be SHP allies after this arc. Who will lead them into battle? 8 year old Momo? Dude there will be 4 admirals (not to mention even more powerful foes backing WG) and Zoro and Luffy is not enough, that's a fact. Back when I was Sanji fan I would say his name here but Sanji reaching Admiral level will be laughable base on his treatment. What's even more laughable is that yall think the WSS (zoro) and PK level Luffy can and single handedly win a war. WB was top tier and got shit on because he was the only yonko level character there and this was a rescue mission.

4. What sword thing are you rambling about now? You are mixing me up with Naomi. I don't think Toki is alive but I do believe Oden may likely be alive though it's likely not his intention and he may have been saved.
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Man I laughed soo bloody hard while reading this because it's true. Oden is a world class troll and is stupid to the core mainly because he acted like a fool for 5 years instead of straight up attacking and people think it's just the villains that mess up lmao.

the kill part, was because of what Cp0 leader of the group of wano said, look at him bring it up, and claim he glad it's a failure. he glad it a failure, though if see other question why is he bringing up that df all of sudden? when it was on punk hazard. he almost seems envy of it.

imo i don't think they let momo run around with it, to dangerous if they figure out it working, though if they do try to take him, will be stopped. could be hint momo coming with sh and oden. (since oden and his kids traveled with white beard,roger and luffy possible)

since oden was part of the plan roger set, as he told oden the plan and to wait for the person they need, aka 20 years later luffy.

and yeah, oden also helps balance if true there is a big war coming, sh will need all the help they can get! plus luffy already shown excitement to oden when he heard about him only to show anger when he realized what happen to oden.

Not sure if Wano is a plot hole someone would have to explain to me why it is because at this point it seems we are still in the set up stage.

I don't pretend to like Wano arc, I just don't care anymore. It's too the point where I can't point out small details like Naomi anymore. Usually I remember shit cause I use to read chapters like 3 times upon release. Now I really could care less. Maybe the development with Sanji really let me down and now I just read weekly because I just want to know how the story ends. Truthfully I am mostly disappointed in One Piece post time skip. I got so mad at WCI that I don't think I will recover from it. Wano's set up was extremely long and drawn out but I can't say i'm surprised. If I were you I wouldn't expect Oda to explain what Oden and Toki was planning in one chapter. Probably gonna be a drawn out 2 chapters at best.

One Piece is a great story and Wano is ok imo. Nothing has really blown my mind. I mean I stop reading for a whole year and mostly focus on other things. Long time ago I couldn't even imagine doing that. I set my expectations low for this arc because if I didn't I would be upset. So however this plays out, I'll take it and leave it at that.

As for wano, like tama,tengu,oden,lady ninja, and oden friends. and big mom(LOL) and also perospero growing on me, the guy lmao is just casually walking around, and seeing different outcomes, there should be meme of him going places. lolololol

Though i did sleep through most wano, kept seeing more of orochi stupid face, big turn off. to see this evil fool do what he did. then later to only go yeesss when kaido killed him.. but that to seems to good to be true. lol considering orochi possible head regrow.. lol

also oda was building up orochi potential see oden, but he cut it off early. so there still chance orochi comeback, and also freaking out, only to get beat up for good. not quick death. that jerk can go to impel down.

I don't get why people use to call almost everything they don't like a plothole

If there is a plothole that gets filled and explained fast then it was never a plothole. Just sth. that wasn't directly explained.

I've already explained/discord what see other now saying, beside the other who keep making excuse because they don't want oden alive, not my problem if they want to ignore what oda already left as hints for oden comeback.

also plot hole would be like

oda writing oden comeback hints, then nothing.

Instead he did leave clues to oden coming back, so not plot hole. just got to read back, and now hints make sense.

Toki-like i mention already mention she would save him
Toki still needs to meet luffy hint, that oden hinted at by going 20 years
Tenguyama was waiting for oden hint, then we see oden with new swords.. most defiantly oden!
kanjuro clue/lied about momo breaking his ropes. not true. so something is off.
Oda left clue Orocohi man never found Oden body, explains why orochi hires body guards/has nightmares. Oden comeback clue.
Oden dancing time frame, he and toki had a lot time to discuss a back up plan, or help toki figure out awakening her df explaining how oden survived!
Roger told Oden to wait for that person 20 years, for the plan, aka luffy.
Oda made it seem orochi and oden would meet again, but he cut orochi off early, now we see oden. then he showed orochi headless head in cp0 panel, why show that? Also will his new heads grow out of his butt?

 

[Nicolo Makaveli]

I don't get why people use to call almost everything they don't like a plothole

If there is a plothole that gets filled and explained fast then it was never a plothole. Just sth. that wasn't directly explained.

If it gets filled.

 

[Nessos]

If it gets filled.

It feels like "fans" judging a way to fast like they did in previous Arc

Why not waiting till end of arc looking for plotholes instead pointing out everything that didn't get a direct explanation.

 

[Srundenx]

Why would he kill momo to take it? Wouldn't it be better to capture momo and experiment as to why he was a success and everyone else failed. I mean Momo could be the outlier they were looking for. Oden fought Kaido and failed he might be to hold BM back for a bit but whether or not he can win without his original swords is the real question and honestly he is highly likely to fail unless Oda plans for Luffy to fully 1 v 1 Kaido (which is what I hope to happen), then have kid, law, oden etc team up against BM. If that don't work then BM needs to be removed from the equation.



1. wa ha ha and ha ha ha is completely different mate why are you so adamant about this? It's astounding actually.

2. When did I include anything from anime in this conversation? I haven't even seen the flashback in the anime last time I watch the anime Luffy was in prison, I don't care for Toei please stop making assumptions. I barely watch the anime, and when I do its when I am binge when I am bored.

3. I was just stating possibilities and long term goals. Luffy needs allies to challenge the WG and Oden is literally confirmed to be the strongest samurai. Your head is up your ass if you don't think the samaurai won't be SHP allies after this arc. Who will lead them into battle? 8 year old Momo? Dude there will be 4 admirals (not to mention even more powerful foes backing WG) and Zoro and Luffy is not enough, that's a fact. Back when I was Sanji fan I would say his name here but Sanji reaching Admiral level will be laughable base on his treatment. What's even more laughable is that yall think the WSS (zoro) and PK level Luffy can and single handedly win a war. WB was top tier and got shit on because he was the only yonko level character there and this was a rescue mission.

4. What sword thing are you rambling about now? You are mixing me up with Naomi. I don't think Toki is alive but I do believe Oden may likely be alive though it's likely not his intention and he may have been saved.
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Man I laughed soo bloody hard while reading this because it's true. Oden is a world class troll and is stupid to the core mainly because he acted like a fool for 5 years instead of straight up attacking and people think it's just the villains that mess up lmao.

1. Who said "wahaha" and "hahaha" are same ?? Can u read ? I said that both are just basic laugh which used by most people, like my example when Kinemon used "wahaha" too....

2. I typed "i'll repeat this", i just copied my reply for another member, sorry if it's confusing you.

3. Ofc, samurai will be SHP allies, and I believe Momo is the one who will be their representative, Momo is the only one who can control Zunisha. By Oden's Journal, Momo is the one who will bring dawn to Wano and the world. He and Shirahoshi are two people by destiny who will be guided by Luffy as a Joy Boy to bring dawn to the world. That's why i think Momo will join SHP in their journey after this war, with Tama, Carrot, and Yamato of course. Thus, we don't need Oden. WB had a 9 years old Marco as apprentice, while Roger had Shanks and Buggy while almost at the same age with Marco or Momo. Age doesn't matter.

4. You believe Oden is alive right ? I just wanna ask you few question about that. I am not saying about Toki's alive either. But If Oden is alive, why Toki cried after Oden execution ? Why she gave Oden's swords to Tengu, so Tengu can give the swords to Momo and Hiyori at promised time ?? Why not just keep it at Oden's ressurection point or somewhere safe ?? These question doesn't need Toki to be alive.
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I wonder about Queen past. His actions to his subordinates remind me of Germa. He also mentioned Judge before.

Is he part of Germa before or just fellow scientist ??

Judge, Queen, Vegapunk, Caesar...seems like there was history between them.

 

[Nessos]

I wonder about Queen past. His actions to his subordinates remind me of Germa. He also mentioned Judge before.

Is he part of Germa before or just fellow scientist ??

Judge, Queen, Vegapunk, Caesar...seems like there was history between them.

Thinking about it, it could be possible that Queen was part of Vegapunks team that made experiments on Kaidou. He could even be the one responsible for freeing Kaidou

 

[Srundenx]

Thinking about it, it could be possible that Queen was part of Vegapunks team that made experiments on Kaidou. He could even be the one responsible for freeing Kaidou

Make sense, he knows Kaidou, free him, then become one of his Allstars. If Momo's fruit really created at Punk Hazard, then it's also possible that Kaidou was brought there too for the experiment. Those gigantic freezing prisoner at Punk Hazard, maybe Kaidou was one of them. Thus, it's means Caesar was part of the team who experimented on him. It's explain alot why Caesar become one of Kaidou underling to produce SMILE. They're all connected.

 

[Nessos]

If Momo's fruit really created at Punk Hazard, then it's also possible that Kaidou was brought there too for the experiment.

There is another common theory. Since instruction of the Numbers many expect them to be the Ancient Giants who were rioting on PH.

Thus might result in Queen not only freeing Kaidou but also the Numbers
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Thus, it's means Caesar was part of the team who experimented on him. It's explain alot why Caesar become one of Kaidou underling to produce SMILE. They're all connected.

For me it looks like Caesar's SMILEs differs a lot from Vegapunks fruit.

Vegapunk DF research

• Cloning Devil Fruit powers via Lineage factor (failure -> cause Momos fruit ain't perfect)
• Managed to make objects "consume" DFs grabting them DF powers.
• Combine the 2 mentioned before (sucess -> Pacifista able to shoot Borsalino laser)

Caesar DF research:

• Caesar seems to have observed how DF soul return to their fruit (Smileys fruit returning in Close Apples again)
• SMILEs seems to be based on exactly this, this would also explain why Caesar only use apples for SMILEs. SMILEs are not clones, they are an own creation.

 

[Udell]

Yo, I dropped my explanation to this on one or two discords.

So remember the soul forest on Skypiea with these unique trees? I believe that the ancient humans fromt he ancient kingdom were able to create gates to the spirit realm. I believe such a realm exists, it's feeding the world with powers, for example Devil Fruits and their powers. But also the powers of creatures.

We now have seen several creatures in Wano possessing powers and we consider them a reference to "Yokai". Similair with Onimaru and Kumainu. I believe Wano is one of the last active places that have gates to this spirit realm.

Now the current day in Wano is a very special day, the Fire Festival.

We know that we currently move towards the Flower Capitol, we saw the mountain and theoretically we must be above the Flower Capitol at any given chance. So what I think happened is simple:
Due to the Fire Festival the spirit realm opened its gates.
Oden upon his death had such a strong will, man he was so powerful, he was able to manifest himself into the spirit realm.
Oden from now on is a spirit that watches over Wano and it's destiny and he literally came to protect Wano.
I believe, since Onigashima is about to fall into the Flower Capitol, that those spirits were sent throgh the gate so they can stop the falling Onigashima before the gates close again.

Toki is also dead I feel, but I believe Toki knew about thisl, I believe her ancestors back then when building Wano or helping with it, were actually setting up those gates or mechanisms for the spirit realm. Maybe this is a huge reason why Wano is closed to the outside world and in order to protect it. And here comes the big clue: I believe Lough Tale is similair, if not Lough Tale might have the strongest gate to this realm. And I believe that Brook and his power will be a relevant plot point to this, maybe if Brook sings the tales of Lough Tale and the Ancient Kingdom, then he might open up the gate.

Anyway, I believe both Toki and Oden are real, for now, just for this day and in order to protect the Flower Capitol, help the scabbards, and especially help Luffy. I believe that we will get insights into the lore of Wano through Toki, she will have to explain this mechanism protecting Wano, this spirit realm, she is the only one who might know.
That is why I am convinced that soon we will get the first glimpse to the void century flashback, via Toki, explaining how Wano came to be and how it's power came to be.

So yeah that's that for now, I have so many thoughts.

10/10 chapter and Chopper is MVP outside of the rooftop events.

Yow this is a 10/10 theory I like it. This happening makes sense fits with me. Whatever happens I'm down with tbh.
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1. Who said "wahaha" and "hahaha" are same ?? Can u read ? I said that both are just basic laugh which used by most people, like my example when Kinemon used "wahaha" too....

2. I typed "i'll repeat this", i just copied my reply for another member, sorry if it's confusing you.

3. Ofc, samurai will be SHP allies, and I believe Momo is the one who will be their representative, Momo is the only one who can control Zunisha. By Oden's Journal, Momo is the one who will bring dawn to Wano and the world. He and Shirahoshi are two people by destiny who will be guided by Luffy as a Joy Boy to bring dawn to the world. That's why i think Momo will join SHP in their journey after this war, with Tama, Carrot, and Yamato of course. Thus, we don't need Oden. WB had a 9 years old Marco as apprentice, while Roger had Shanks and Buggy while almost at the same age with Marco or Momo. Age doesn't matter.

4. You believe Oden is alive right ? I just wanna ask you few question about that. I am not saying about Toki's alive either. But If Oden is alive, why Toki cried after Oden execution ? Why she gave Oden's swords to Tengu, so Tengu can give the swords to Momo and Hiyori at promised time ?? Why not just keep it at Oden's ressurection point or somewhere safe ?? These question doesn't need Toki to be alive.
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I wonder about Queen past. His actions to his subordinates remind me of Germa. He also mentioned Judge before.

Is he part of Germa before or just fellow scientist ??

Judge, Queen, Vegapunk, Caesar...seems like there was history between them.

1. Alright fair point, they are basic laughs however you are insinuating that the pirates were the ones laughing which I think is highly unlikely. Ha ha ha is much more generic than wa ha ha and given certain clues I don't think that was the pirates but who knows I could be wrong.

2. oh ok

3. Luffy story is more parallel to Roger than WB so not sure what point you are trying to make about Marco. I honestly don't think 8 year old Momo will join the crew that's crazy talk, he is literally dead weight and heir to his throne. He will stay in Wano for the same reason why Vivi did. Yes the fact that he can control Zu is an asset and if anything he can just give the order to have Zu help the samurai aid SHP.

4. Oden is literally is standing there at the end of the chapter, you got a better explanation for this turn of events? Unless you agree with Rej then I say he is alive. Now to answer why Toki cried, its obvious to me, she already decided not to time jump but yet wants to protect Oden. Either way they were going to be apart and she loved him why would she not cry? The answer is simple anyone would cry if they won't see a love again.

the kill part, was because of what Cp0 leader of the group of wano said, look at him bring it up, and claim he glad it's a failure. he glad it a failure, though if see other question why is he bringing up that df all of sudden? when it was on punk hazard. he almost seems envy of it.

imo i don't think they let momo run around with it, to dangerous if they figure out it working, though if they do try to take him, will be stopped. could be hint momo coming with sh and oden. (since oden and his kids traveled with white beard,roger and luffy possible)

since oden was part of the plan roger set, as he told oden the plan and to wait for the person they need, aka 20 years later luffy.

and yeah, oden also helps balance if true there is a big war coming, sh will need all the help they can get! plus luffy already shown excitement to oden when he heard about him only to show anger when he realized what happen to oden.

Whether they try to take him or kill him will trigger something major in terms of the plot. I don't think the SHP should take momo with them but I guess that's really up to Oda. I don't even think they should take Oden. Oden already knows everything so its better he stays an ally along with momo. If they leave then they leave their country without a leader and that's bad, we all saw what happened to Wano when Oden left. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

As for wano, like tama,tengu,oden,lady ninja, and oden friends. and big mom(LOL) and also perospero growing on me, the guy lmao is just casually walking around, and seeing different outcomes, there should be meme of him going places. lolololol

Though i did sleep through most wano, kept seeing more of orochi stupid face, big turn off. to see this evil fool do what he did. then later to only go yeesss when kaido killed him.. but that to seems to good to be true. lol considering orochi possible head regrow.. lol

also oda was building up orochi potential see oden, but he cut it off early. so there still chance orochi comeback, and also freaking out, only to get beat up for good. not quick death. that jerk can go to impel down.

Wano wasn't bad so far but not all that great either however its still building up so just gotta be patient. Orochi's death was anticlimactic. He already got betrayed bring him back for a couple ass whooping and then he can use the rest of his remaining lives to get executed by Wano people. Scum doesn't deserve to be let off that easily.

 

[Srundenx]

There is another common theory. Since instruction of the Numbers many expect them to be the Ancient Giants who were rioting on PH.

Thus might result in Queen not only freeing Kaidou but also the Numbers

Yup, there's a possibility, even tho these Numbers considered a success, maybe those freezing Giants was a failure experiment.

For me it looks like Caesar's SMILEs differs a lot from Vegapunks fruit.

Vegapunk DF research

• Cloning Devil Fruit powers via Lineage factor (failure -> cause Momos fruit ain't perfect)
• Managed to make objects "consume" DFs grabting them DF powers.
• Combine the 2 mentioned before (sucess -> Pacifista able to shoot Borsalino laser)

Caesar DF research:

• Caesar seems to have observed how DF soul return to their fruit (Smileys fruit returning in Close Apples again)
• SMILEs seems to be based on exactly this, this would also explain why Caesar only use apples for SMILEs. SMILEs are not clones, they are an own creation.

Let's not forget, this "failure" was Vegapunk claims, it's possible he lied to World Govt., and of course, different minds have different result, that's why Vegapunk or WG decided to leave Caesar, maybe because Caesar experiment was too risky, needs more sacrifice or human resource. While Vegapunk's can be replicated better, and need less resource.

 

[Nessos]

Let's not forget, this "failure" was Vegapunk claims, it's possible he lied to World Govt.

I doubt he lied in his eyes it most likely was a failure cause the result wasn't a DF.
But we don't know much inferior Vegapunks fruit compared to the real DF is also Vegapunk himself shouldn't cause he didn't test it.

 

[Srundenx]

Yow this is a 10/10 theory I like it. This happening makes sense fits with me. Whatever happens I'm down with tbh.
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1. Alright fair point, they are basic laughs however you are insinuating that the pirates were the ones laughing which I think is highly unlikely. Ha ha ha is much more generic than wa ha ha and given certain clues I don't think that was the pirates but who knows I could be wrong.

2. oh ok

3. Luffy story is more parallel to Roger than WB so not sure what point you are trying to make about Marco. I honestly don't think 8 year old Momo will join the crew that's crazy talk, he is literally dead weight and heir to his throne. He will stay in Wano for the same reason why Vivi did. Yes the fact that he can control Zu is an asset and if anything he can just give the order to have Zu help the samurai aid SHP.

4. Oden is literally is standing there at the end of the chapter, you got a better explanation for this turn of events? Unless you agree with Rej then I say he is alive. Now to answer why Toki cried, its obvious to me, she already decided not to time jump but yet wants to protect Oden. Either way they were going to be apart and she loved him why would she not cry? The answer is simple anyone would cry if they won't see a love again.


Whether they try to take him or kill him will trigger something major in terms of the plot. I don't think the SHP should take momo with them but I guess that's really up to Oda. I don't even think they should take Oden. Oden already knows everything so its better he stays an ally along with momo. If they leave then they leave their country without a leader and that's bad, we all saw what happened to Wano when Oden left. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.





Wano wasn't bad so far but not all that great either however its still building up so just gotta be patient. Orochi's death was anticlimactic. He already got betrayed bring him back for a couple ass whooping and then he can use the rest of his remaining lives to get executed by Wano people. Scum doesn't deserve to be let off that easily.

1. Yes, i could be wrong too, but what i mean is "if" these laugh was more specific than "wahaha" which many people used that, it'll be stronger clue or proof. These sfx, "stromp stromp", "gyahaha", "hahaha", "wahaha"...was heard all over places in Onigashima. And if Oden was the one who laugh like that, everybody can hear it. With the latest introduction of cyborg spies all over Onigashima, i doubt that he wont be spotted by one of those cyborg.

3. Why not ? Look at Buggy, he was nothing then. Spoiled child which we even don't know when he exactly join Roger's crew. Maybe at 6 or 7 years old. And if we understand carefully with what Yamato said in Oden's Journal, Momo's the one who the world needed, not only Wano. He's an important figure not just for Wano. Then, if Vivi can lead Arabasta as princess, why Hiyori can't.

4. I know, it was different with masked Yamato first introduction, since we saw "Oden" this time. That's why we should analyze who is he, real Oden or not, how is he alive, and try too explain all that happened before if he's real Oden, like the one I mentioned about Toki, and so on. Not just stated an assumtion or intangible proof. I need explanation about many now questionable moments, not just random intangible proof. Because i thought this thread was for chapter discussion, not a Theories thread, that's why i don't visit Theories thread.

Toki cried after she read Oden's letter, and it was his death letter, so she read that after Oden's death, not before. At those circumtances, it's weird to cry if she plans or already sent Oden to the future. Also, she was at Kuri Castle, and Oden was at Flower Capital, yes we don't know how her power works, but is it weird if she can cast her spell that far ??

The only reasonable explanation if that's true, is the one who boiled was not Oden. It's just too absurd, when Oden was boiled, headshoted, and drowned into boiling pot, then she cast her spell from far away from Kuri to Flower Capital, in that exact moment after Oden face can't be seen anymore, it's so funny just by imagining it.
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I doubt he lied in his eyes it most likely was a failure cause the result wasn't a DF.
But we don't know much inferior Vegapunks fruit compared to the real DF is also Vegapunk himself shouldn't cause he didn't test it.

Did we see the DF at Punk Hazard ? I think the DF which eaten by Momo seems like an actual DF, it was different from SMILEs. Also, from what we have learned about Kuma and so on, it seems like Vegapunk was not actually under WG command, more like he had his personal purpose. He could be lied about this DF was failure so WG couldn't get their hands on it. Maybe it's because it was a success, he fear WG exploited this, and try to produce a massive DF clones.

Failure or not, only time after the stories continue can answer that.

 

[Nessos]

Did we see the DF at Punk Hazard ?

Yes we see Vegapunks fruit in PH backflash, Sure it look different from SMILEs but also different from actual DF (no swirls).

Failure or not, only time after the stories continue can answer that.

We know the answer for Vegapunk it was a failure. I mean Lineage factor was mentioned and it explains everything.

Lineage factor refers to cloning.
On PH Vegapunk made at least 3 different Lineage Factor experiments:

1. Creating Dragons -> 12 failure, Dragon number 13 was the first successful Dragon (and the Name is based on attempt number)
2. Creating Giants -> according to CC all failed. Call me crazy, but I think all these "faillures" are actually the Numbers and like the Dragons they are named after the attempt number.
3. Creating a Devil Fruit -> resulting in Momos fruit which was also a failure cause Vegapunk didn't manage to create a perfect DF.

"Faillure" in Vegapunk eyes just means "not a perfect copy". Sure he was close and most won't see Momos fruit as DF Copy nor the Numbers as Giants as "faillures", but Vegapunk does cause they are not "perfect".

Thus means at this point of the story we already know Vegapunk is a perfectionist.