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No. And we all know that's not true. The excitement you get from going up against a high importance canon character is nonthing like going up against some random ass Fairy Tail NPC someone made. These canon high end NPCs are the pillars of the story. It's also an integral part of this RP the way it was set up, because it was set up in the canonverse. For example our OP RP (WURP) was not canon, there were no canon NPCs. But here, we are set in the canon world for a reason. Of course we stray from it with our stories, but we're still in the canon world and we should protect its sanctity, instead of just rolling through all the canon NPCs in half a year and turning this into a dungeon and dragons NPC verse.

Cross needs to keep in mind it's not just him. Yes, him alone would take a while to kill everything off. But if we all just start killing NPCs we'll run through them in 6 months.
"Cross needs to keep in mind it's not just him"
Cross never killed a high-end NPCs.

I see no difference in defeating a canon or a created NPC. I took more pleasure in Azure City than in many of the adventures I have had here. The challenge is the challenge. A level 100 is a level 100. A level 80 is a level 80. If you create a character and tell me he is a legendary marine, he will be treated as such.

Protecting some hypothetical sanctity is some bullshit; we killed NPCs for fruits, and it wasn't to protect the integrity of the RP. It wasn't for big story purposes. We wanted the fruits. We need to stop being hypocritical according to the situation. If we wanted to protect the sanctity of the so-called story, Fujitora, Magellan, Kaido, or BM would not have died. Just be defeated or knocked out. But are they ?
 

Einsauer

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Why is this being brought up just now when two PCs already claimed it?
Because I saw it in action and it gave me some concerns about its "hypothetical" usage.

There's a number of other items in the DC shop if you check, that barely give you any advantage in battle.
Yeah, bud. The difference is Seraphims give you an enormous advantage in battle as you have clearly demonstrated. The ability to read poneglyphs doesn't.

Alright (correct me if I'm wrong), your argument is that level 80 NPCs become fodder in late-game.
Therefore, as a level 25 character- getting to engage with combat as if you were a level 80 is justified.

Hell you can get a level 80 NPC in the normal shop for WAY less than 100 DC.
Not. At. Level. 25.
 

Einsauer

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Therefore, as a level 25 character- getting to engage with combat as if you were a level 80 is justified.
In a manner that ONLY these specific items can do by the way. No other NPC, fighting style, weapon or custom material lets you tank with 101 durability and fly around shooting S rank lasers at level 25.
 
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Alright (correct me if I'm wrong), your argument is that level 80 NPCs become fodder in late-game.
Therefore, as a level 25 character- getting to engage with combat as if you were a level 80 is justified.
No, I was referring to you stating that there's no reason to get any other DC item and that this one is far superior. And I'm saying yes it is, early on, and then later on it's useless.

I find it so strange that ''power levelling'' is such an issue in a scenario where someone WILLINGLY gave up everything anyway, when they could have just used a normal reset and kept all of their shit on their new, already maxed out character. Like, you do realize that right now, I could already have a level 100 Kumo with all items, 500 bill Beri, hundreds of DC, INCLUDING a Seraphim? All for the steep price of 5k EXP. And instead I opted to have that same character at level 25, with a Seraphim. That's the part where we have such a strong disagreement with. The whole concept of legacy-ing is one MASSIVE nerf for yourself, and you're having a problem that that -100 nerf comes with a +20 perk.

You do realize that the whole concept of Legacy is all one big ass sacrifice anyway right? So I dunno why it's so hard for you to live with the new level 25 having the ability to level up faster, when he was borne of the biggest possible throwing away of EXP/Beri possible to begin with.

Like, the way your argument reads to me is the following:

So there's a guy (me, Ichi, referring to anyone who legacies), his character is completely end-game level, way too strong, way too much EXP, way too much DC, way too much money, hundreds of billions, to the point where there's nothing else to even buy or achieve money/EXP/beri wise... so he threw all of that away willingly for a level 25 and a Seraphim... and in doing so, he was being unfair and exploiting a scheme to... level up faster?

I don't get it lol.
 
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Einsauer

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I find it so strange that ''power levelling'' is such an issue in a scenario where someone WILLINGLY gave up everything anyway, when they could have just used a normal reset and kept all of their shit on their new, already maxed out character.
I find it so strange that you keep bringing this up like you're a martyr. You, word of the day, WILLINGLY, gave up your character in a way that keeps them relevant in plot so you could start over- yes, you did that, good job, I agree you should get awards for doing so.
The feature exists for when you get bored of your maxxed out characters and want to start over, right?

Like, you do realize that right now, I could already have a level 100 Kumo with all items, 500 bill Beri, hundreds of DC, INCLUDING a Seraphim?
Yes, I do. I've asked myself a few times now why you didn't just do that since you CLEARLY wanted to do that- considering you've brought this topic up like 3 or 4 times now as if I'm unaware. I'm aware you gave up a bunch of shit, I just don't care- it was you're choice, that doesn't mean that Seraphims are magically balanced because of your awe-inspiring sacrifice.

Your argument reads to me as:
I'm going to make you repeat everything at least twice because I can't be fucked to actually read what you're writing. I'm too personally offended- so, instead I'll dance around the issue you're bringing up and I'll keep making it an attack on me. I gave up so much. :feelsbetrayingman:
--

To be clear, I don't agree that Seraphims are useless once you're a high level, regardless of that I don't get why you're dancing around my ONE argument. You say you surrendered more power than that, you question my intentions is bringing it up, you dismiss the argument, and you play the victim; but you don't actually address my concern in a constructive way at all.

When my argument is just: "Seraphims are too strong at low level"
Your best counter-argument yet can be boiled down to: "No."

I don't get it lol.
I can tell. Maybe you should ask the community considering it seems like everyone else at least sees where I'm coming from.
 

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Is there a new Kaka on the forum? Surely you can't be talking about me. xD
Aw, because big bad Einsauer has always had it out for Kakashi-? He's notorious for complaining about everything you do-- Clearly he's not actually considered with the fact that you're cheesing and others can cheese using the exact same tactic.

You cannot even FATHOM how this is unfair- so much so your first instinct was: "whew, thank god I'm obviously grandfathered in", not: "oh, the other gms are considering it. maybe he has some sort of point that I'm actively ignoring..."
 
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I can tell. Maybe you should ask the community considering it seems like everyone else at least sees where I'm coming from.
Who is everyone else? lol

Cross is just playing his usual ''trolling the GMs'' spiel, Infinity said he sees both points, Guren said he sees no problem as is, and the only other people involved in the discussion are the GMs, who have two representatives that are actually using the item, so we clearly don't agree with you, Larsi hasn't commented, so Ziosa is willing to go along with your proposal but also sees no issue as is. And then Magi. Is there anyone else who even commented?

As for the rest of your post, that was hilarious. If you see me trying to be a martyr, then you clearly don't even try to understand the point.

My point is the following. Legacy-ing is a transaction. There's a price you pay. There's an item you get in return. The price paid is HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS, HUNDREDS OF DC, and about 1 million EXP, and the prize in return is... well, I don't have to point it out. Clearly not even close to the price paid.

It is the LEAST ''worthy'' transaction you can make. And you're complaining the new char is getting to level up too quickly, when the char could have been level 100 from the getgo and you wouldn't complain about that?

Also, let me be very clear one last time since you think I'm trying to play some type of a victim. IT. LITERALLY. DOESN'T. AFFECT. ME. Both Ichi and I are grandfathered in, even if the rule changes now. Just like people whose DF ranks changed don't suddenly get it stripped from their NPCs. So if anything the rule change would be beneficial to me lmao. But I just don't agree with it and that's that. I see nothing wrong with a setup where the main character is weak and his subordinate is the one doing the fighting, it's not an uncommon theme in anime at all, so from that point of view I see no issue. And from the point of view of fairness, as said, no issue either, considering the level drop was VOLUNTARY.

Not to mention this setup allows for the viability of characters that aren't fighting oriented, since they get to have a NPC do it.

But anyway, to stop this because it is getting nowhere.

My GM vote:

Either of @Einsauer 's proposals are fine, so whichever.

There, so easy. The whining can stop.

Btw, new GM proposal: Changing your char without legacying is no longer allowed. Don't see how that'd be fair compared to legacy-ing. You get to just pay 5k EXP and keep everything while I have to start over? Nope. Let's keep it consistent then.
 
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Aw, because big bad Einsauer has always had it out for Kakashi-? He's notorious for complaining about everything you do-- Clearly he's not actually considered with the fact that you're cheesing and others can cheese using the exact same tactic.
I was joking good lord lol. And then I'm the one on edge.

You cannot even FATHOM how this is unfair- so much so your first instinct was: "whew, thank god I'm obviously grandfathered in", not: "oh, the other gms are considering it. maybe he has some sort of point that I'm actively ignoring..."
Yep, I really can't. I really can't fathom how giving up a maxed out char for a level 25 with a level 80 NPC is unfair.
 

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I was joking good lord lol. And then I'm the one on edge.
ooOOO, I get it. :dogkek: It's even funnier when you say I'm just out to get you for the 40th time.

Who is everyone else?
Use your critical thinking skills.

They get where I'm coming from, yet you're the only person who cannot seem to fathom what my point is no matter how clear I make it or how many times I repeat it.
I'm fine with that. (y)
Clearly lying.
i prefer the second suggestion, as otherwise it will be a useless item/NPC for 35 levels
Clearly lying.
Makes sense tbh, i feel you. I can see how it does make the hard mode redundant in that case
This guy clearly can't see where I'm coming from.

Not even saying they agree, I'm saying they understand the words appearing on their screen and why I might have concerns.

My point is the following. Legacy-ing is a transaction. There's a price you pay. There's an item you get in return. The price paid is HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS, HUNDREDS OF DC, and about 1 million EXP, and the prize in return is... well, I don't have to point it out. Clearly not even close to the price paid.
Yes, you're acting like a martyr. You keep bringing up how much you got rid of and insisting you should be able to use a reward that seems unfair because of how much you gave away as if it's correlated.

You didn't give up your old character for a DC item, you gave it up to start fresh with bonuses. I'm saying that bonus seems to be too strong.
And you're counter-argument hasn't really moved from "Nah. Clearly YOU'RE missing the point."
 
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Mhm, let me not screenshot why some of the GMs are agreeing with you. Would just escalate things needlessly. It's fine like I said above, do what ya want.

I'll just drop the character anyway (and before you say that's some victim play, it ain't, just don't feel like playing him without his setup as intended, and also don't plan to keep playing him as is because apparently grandfather clause is just being cheap).

So all good.

Anyway, see ya'll later, don't feel like being here for a bit, nothing but arguing for the last couple of days. Someone else can handle activities and EXP for a while.
 

Einsauer

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Mhm, let me not screenshot why some of the GMs are agreeing with you.
:datea: I'm shaking and crying over what some grown men might be saying about me.
You threatening me with DMs is kinda...what's the word...

Oh right, bitch-made. It's bitch-made.
If you got something to say, say it. No need to bring up what your buddies said in private.
 
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I dislike the usage of Divine Emporium NPCs on fresh "New Game+" characters.​
My issue is by utilizing Seraphim/Ancient Giant/Super Robot/Genetic Beasts, one can easily circumvent the restriction of starting over at "Level 25" in terms of combat. These NPC items function differently and are leaps and bounds ahead of the other options given. Devil Fruits, x6 stat boosts, and DE options (besides NPCs) are still directly tied to how strong your character is.
In practice, a player could theoretically :datea: attempt to pick off a hard-mode island's NPCs one-by-one utilizing a level 70/80 NPC while their actual character sits out of harm's way. And since we work on an honor system and we don't wanna piss each other off (most of the time) it opens a specific floodgate I don't like.

If a level 25 is able to effectively challenge a "hard-mode" island using a single item, I think that's antithetical to being "low-level".

New Game+ shouldn't start you off well above where a real level 25 would be. Getting to start with a stat boost, a DF and DE emporium items is compensation for the optional sacrifice to make a new character while keeping your previous character in canon.

NPC items aren't compensation- they're a temporary place-holder until your main PC reaches the strength of the NPC.


I'm pitching a rule regarding the NPCs items, not a ban:
Divine Emporum NPCs should be locked out of combat until their host-character is within 20 levels of the NPC of choice.


This has been my TEDTalk, I will now take all questions and concerns.​
From here
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This would make the seraphim you guys bought useless, and you said there should be a reward for legacy-ing
I´d suggest some kind of profession that allows you to unlock the abilities of your seraphim.
A level 25 shouldn´t be able to percieve the speeds a seraphim can attack at, and they might be unused to the proper way of commanding.
So maybe without the profession, the Seraphims abilities (especially attack and reaction speed) are nerfed, and with more and more stars, you unlock their full abilities, while your pc catches up in speed. And once you surpass the seraphim in level (or reach 81 reaction speed or some other arbitrary threshhold) you no longer need the profession.
That way you can have your seraphim at low level (and they would still be much stronger than npcs of similar level to your pc), but they wouldn´t make you equal with mid game characters.

I do quite like the idea of weak characters commanding way stronger ones, so this way we can have our cake and eat it, too.
 
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And regarding the wanton killing of canon NPCs:

We have a pretty convenient situation that can allow us to remedy this. There is a character loose in this RP with the Soul and Revive fruits, the ideal way to revive random characters.

This Legacy Character can do stuff a PC would never be allowed to do. La Spada can raise an army of undead from hell, her own Edo Tensei army. And once she gets killed, the formerly dead scatter across the seas, taking back islands and carrying out grudges. They'll be stronger due to their time in hell, and some might have to compensate for missing devil fruits.
A new Ultra Hardcore mode is born.
 
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And regarding the wanton killing of canon NPCs:

We have a pretty convenient situation that can allow us to remedy this. There is a character loose in this RP with the Soul and Revive fruits, the ideal way to revive random characters.

This Legacy Character can do stuff a PC would never be allowed to do. La Spada can raise an army of undead from hell, her own Edo Tensei army. And once she gets killed, the formerly dead scatter across the seas, taking back islands and carrying out grudges. They'll be stronger due to their time in hell, and some might have to compensate for missing devil fruits.
A new Ultra Hardcore mode is born.
Man, Spada is Pandora’s Box ?
 
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